Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014

[RotBaron]

Congress has ~18% approval rating and a ~96% re-election rate. This current episode of history would make Shakespeare blush.

Giving the most corrupt nation in Europe $150 billion with zero accountability requirements 

“Lend-Lease”    So well marketed to the customer (your taxes) that they threw out the lease part and made the lend part just keep it (or even sell it). <insert shrug emoji>

[Busher]

RFK Jr. is an absolute raging leftist. Stone is unhinged.

That's not to say that there were not people in the U.S. government deeply involved in the corruption in Ukraine. There are. From both parties.

However, Russia invaded Ukraine for the same reason they invaded Georgia. They want to "reclaim" what they believe is their territory and their glory. Russia is absolutely still bent on expansion. They're the same people who were in charge when Russia invaded Poland in 1939. And Afghanistan in 1979. All communism demands expansionism, just like any other form of totalitarianism. China wants Taiwan. They both see weakness, incompetence, and cowardice.


I'm opposed to the invasion of Ukraine. And I'm opposed to a Russian victory. It doesn't mean I'm a fan of the current government of Ukraine. It doesn't mean I'm a fan of unlimited funds for Ukraine, or funds without accountability and transparency. It means that I fully recognize Russia, China, and Iran as the worst of the "bad guys", and I'm in favor of them being held in check. Appeasement never works. It's a lesson people need to learn. Remember what happened when Chamberlain and friends appeased the nutty painter with the weird mustache?

Sorry to correct but it was Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939 that started World War 2 - Russia did not control Poland until the end of the war when they thrilled the Poles by adding them to the USSR.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

So there was a peaceful resolution that was discarded b4 this endless war started because we destroyed it?

Did we overthrow the election because we didn't like it's outcome?

You seem to jump straight to the invasion forgetting what some say lead up to it and it's possible avoidance...

Did the comic run on the platform that he'd sign the peace agreement only to be talked out of it by us after he won?

Looks to me like some US warhawks - that Victoria beetch for one - won and we are where we are today because we didn't give that agreement a chance


If war wasn't so profitable for some maybe it would be avoided more

The pay to protest Gaza in college campuses is just a distraction for this ... and it works

Eagler

You fail to understand. Putin was looking for a reason and an opportunity. The "reason" was Ukraine asking to be in NATO. The opportunity was the incompetent coward in the white house, put there by the exact same handlers as his old boss.

You actually answered your own question when you asked why this administration, but not the one previous, but also the one before that Try pattern recognition. It usually works to resolve a lot of things. History tends to repeat itself because we have so many fools who love to ignore it, and so many evil people happy the fools ignore it.


The campus unrest is absolutely bought and paid for. By communists. Look at the material laying around the "protests".

The biggest reason to care what the indoctrinated young minions have to say is because they're being groomed to vote collectivist and globalist, and have been, in ever increasing numbers, for decades. Why do you think there was a drive to get them all in college?

[AKIron]

Now I want to watch "The Pianist" again.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Sorry to correct but it was Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939 that started World War 2 - Russia did not control Poland until the end of the war when they thrilled the Poles by adding them to the USSR.

The invasion of Poland occurred specifically because Stalin and Hitler allied themselves. Hitler needed the continent under control, and Stalin greedily and gleefully jumped on the opportunity. Had Stalin not agreed, with a leering hungry eye on what would become the "eastern bloc", Hitler would not likely have started the invasion of Poland. Sure, it was never a solid or long term alliance, but it was an alliance, and for the reasons I stated. With the effects I stated.

[mechanic]

Ukraine war right now only has two outcomes

1. full defeat of Ukraine within the next 7 months

2. Nato joins and more people die pointlessly, escalating WW3

The western propaganda of the brave Ukrainians, holding back the Russians, is nonsense. Ukraine has been gutted like a fish.

I tend to agree with Eagler. I think that when the Ukrainians realise how they have been used by the West they are likely to join the reds for revenge. The comedian president needs to be strung up in the street for all the blood on his hands. And stick nato leaders up there too for warmongering and chasing profit at the cost of other's lives.

The plan backfired horribly. This war has strengthened Russian unity. Has shown the Leadership in the Kremlin to be ruthless and unintimidated. Has not really hurt their economy. Nor their military. They used a whole bunch of obsolete cold war kit and still walked all over eastern Ukraine.

You have to a be a real fanboi of mainstream media to think Russia is simply evil or that she has done anything unprovoked in the last 3 years. And as an American, you'd have to also be a hypocrite to believe any of what they feed you on TV, considering the USA has invaded or been involved in conflicts in over 180 countries in her short history.

[Busher]

The invasion of Poland occurred specifically because Stalin and Hitler allied themselves. Hitler needed the continent under control, and Stalin greedily and gleefully jumped on the opportunity. Had Stalin not agreed, with a leering hungry eye on what would become the "eastern bloc", Hitler would not likely have started the invasion of Poland. Sure, it was never a solid or long term alliance, but it was an alliance, and for the reasons I stated. With the effects I stated.

Clearly we studied the history of World War 2 at different schools.

[TryHard]

The western propaganda of the brave Ukrainians, holding back the Russians, is nonsense. Ukraine has been gutted like a fish.


The plan backfired horribly. This war has strengthened Russian unity. Has shown the Leadership in the Kremlin to be ruthless and unintimidated. Has not really hurt their economy. Nor their military. They used a whole bunch of obsolete cold war kit and still walked all over eastern Ukraine.

 

Russia said it would take Kyiv in 3 days, its been 2 years....
Russia starter another offensive in a different area which stalled and turned into WW1 trench combat with drones.
Russia STILL doesn't have air superiority 2 years after the start of the invasion against a country with a handful of fighter aircraft.

Now im not saying we should be funneling money to it that money pit but Russia is gotten their teeth kicked in on this one there is no denying that...

[knorB]

Russia said it would take Kyiv in 3 days, its been 2 years....
Russia starter another offensive in a different area which stalled and turned into WW1 trench combat with drones.
Russia STILL doesn't have air superiority 2 years after the start of the invasion against a country with a handful of fighter aircraft.

Now im not saying we should be funneling money to it that money pit but Russia is gotten their teeth kicked in on this one there is no denying that...

I was told the T-14 was the ultimate tank... where is it. The SU-57 is the baddest thing with wings... and yet no air dominance.

They do have zerg figured out though.

[mechanic]

Russia said it would take Kyiv in 3 days, its been 2 years....
Russia starter another offensive in a different area which stalled and turned into WW1 trench combat with drones.
Russia STILL doesn't have air superiority 2 years after the start of the invasion against a country with a handful of fighter aircraft.

Now im not saying we should be funneling money to it that money pit but Russia is gotten their teeth kicked in on this one there is no denying that...

I don't personally agree. My work places me in the middle of a global community and as such I have close friends from many nations including Russia and including Ukraine. Both of those nations tell me that the media is lying to the west. My Ukrainian friends tell me Ukraine is a stupid country, at war with itself more than anyone else.

Ukraine has been stomped and has no manpower left. What would anyone expect when a giant with one hundred and fifty million people are at war with a nation of just thirty seven million?

https://uawar.net/stats  - this link is a classic example of propaganda. The Rus loses tab shows some numbers. The Ukr tab shows nothing and shouts in bold red letter 'HEROES DONT DIE!' Oh, and of course under that is a link where you can 'donate to save lives!'

Reuters reported that the death/wounded toll stands thus:

Russia: 315,000
Ukraine: 70,000

Who in their right mind would believe that? Russia has more of everything. Even with all the Nato and US stockpiles that have been wasted, Ukraine cannot maintain an artillery war. Russia on the other hand has massive production capabilities for munitions. Far greater than any European nation or the USA.

In some regions of Ukraine the Russians were welcomed as liberators by some of the population.

More ridiculous statistics from the BBC, that wonderful British company that employs and shelters child molesters.

Russia: 180,000 killed
Ukraine: 31,000 killed

Just how anyone could believe that is beyond me.

I do not claim to know the true statistics. But my guess would be somewhat equal. Relatively modern armies using quite similar level tech. It's been a true war of attrition so far and these next few months is where we will see that Russian capacity for attrition is greater the Ukraine's.

[GasTeddy]

^ I live in SE Europe, not so far from Ukraine. My town has lots of Ukrainian refugees, most of them Russian speaking, who for some reason run away from their liberators. What they tell, slightly differs from your opinion.

I know people who are/have been there. As military trainers, combatants, intelligence officers and aid workers. Those people include friends, acquittances and even some close relatives. What they tell, also differs from your opinions.

Putin has been using exactly same tactics than Hitler and Stalin did. Lots of falsified news, propaganda and lies, to justify his actions. And did Hitler stop or Stalin give up voluntarily?

Clearly we studied the history of World War 2 at different schools.

Well, there are many kind of truths. The truth of the winner, truth of the looser, the real happenings and then Soviet/Russian truth. But Soviets backstabbed Poles 1939, what ever your history teacher has said.

But, may everyone became blessed in their faith.

[DmonSlyr]

What's going on in Ukraine is a direct result of the 2014 Soros and Kolimoisky coup and then the UN failing to do anything about it for 10 years while Putin asked them countless time for mitigation on the situation. Listen to his interview with Tucker if you haven't. 

Secondly, it's a direct result of the election fraud voting In a dementia patient whose been involved with Ukraine for a decade atleast while his son worked in Ukraine for Burisma doing God knows what. Too bad our corrupt communist coward intelligence agencies won't tell the America what else was on his laptop except the sex and drug abuse which is really just a look here not there scheme. As they shrug off bobulinski. That's how you know they are corrupt to the core, as they hamstring the #1 republican president with trials during an election campaign.

Thirdly, the west and UN and China are responsible for the funding of bioweapons that killed hundreds of millions of people. Russia exposed  6 top officials involved with that. Meanwhile they ignored that and attacked Trump every day with a kill count saying it was his fault to sow distrust in the president and use that to get their dementia patient elected. Cowards.

Fourthly, Putin is not a Soviet communist. Infact the west is far more communist now than Russia. Putin kicked out many soviets who were globalist satanist. While he may indulge in some russian communist aspects like love of country, community of people, and how tight they were together as a group, he doesn't push the economic communist socialist theory. The country is far better off now than it's ever been. Unlike Ukraine, whose turned to hard crap since the coup, just like everything the left/west takes over. 

Imo, the current UN and global establishment trying to create a world government is far more expansionist than Russia. We have no reason to be in Ukraine. Just like Russia had no reason to be in Cuba at time. Do we want Russians on the Mexico border building quiet weapons for quiet wars on our border like the UN and NATO is quietly doing? I don't think so.

Let's go blow up more gas pipelines, blame them on someone else, and then call us the good guys. Just like the damn caliphate and suicide bombings, knifing, and shooting random people. War has no honor anymore.

[rabbidrabbit]

What's going on in Ukraine is a direct result of the 2014 Soros and Kolimoisky coup and then the UN failing to do anything about it for 10 years while Putin asked them countless time for mitigation on the situation. Listen to his interview with Tucker if you haven't. 

Secondly, it's a direct result of the election fraud voting In a dementia patient whose been involved with Ukraine for a decade atleast while his son worked in Ukraine for Burisma doing God knows what. Too bad our corrupt communist coward intelligence agencies won't tell the America what else was on his laptop except the sex and drug abuse which is really just a look here not there scheme. As they shrug off bobulinski. That's how you know they are corrupt to the core, as they hamstring the #1 republican president with trials during an election campaign.

Thirdly, the west and UN and China are responsible for the funding of bioweapons that killed hundreds of millions of people. Russia exposed  6 top officials involved with that. Meanwhile they ignored that and attacked Trump every day with a kill count saying it was his fault to sow distrust in the president and use that to get their dementia patient elected. Cowards.

Fourthly, Putin is not a Soviet communist. Infact the west is far more communist now than Russia. Putin kicked out many soviets who were globalist satanist. While he may indulge in some russian communist aspects like love of country, community of people, and how tight they were together as a group, he doesn't push the economic communist socialist theory. The country is far better off now than it's ever been. Unlike Ukraine, whose turned to hard crap since the coup, just like everything the left/west takes over. 

Imo, the current UN and global establishment trying to create a world government is far more expansionist than Russia. We have no reason to be in Ukraine. Just like Russia had no reason to be in Cuba at time. Do we want Russians on the Mexico border building quiet weapons for quiet wars on our border like the UN and NATO is quietly doing? I don't think so.

Let's go blow up more gas pipelines, blame them on someone else, and then call us the good guys. Just like the damn caliphate and suicide bombings, knifing, and shooting random people. War has no honor anymore.

This a great summation of what Russian IO has been pushing to western audiences.

[mechanic]

^ I live in SE Europe, not so far from Ukraine. My town has lots of Ukrainian refugees, most of them Russian speaking, who for some reason run away from their liberators. What they tell, slightly differs from your opinion.

I know people who are/have been there. As military trainers, combatants, intelligence officers and aid workers. Those people include friends, acquittances and even some close relatives. What they tell, also differs from your opinions.

Putin has been using exactly same tactics than Hitler and Stalin did. Lots of falsified news, propaganda and lies, to justify his actions. And did Hitler stop or Stalin give up voluntarily?


Well, there are many kind of truths. The truth of the winner, truth of the looser, the real happenings and then Soviet/Russian truth. But Soviets backstabbed Poles 1939, what ever your history teacher has said.

But, may everyone became blessed in their faith.

You certainly have a good source of info there and I wont argue against it. Only to say that of course different people have different views even on their own country's politics.

It does seem likely that many Ukrainian refugees fled Russia invasion to avoid Russians. But it is also true that many Ukrainians fled Ukraine to avoid being drafted into Zelensky's suicidal war.

Western media lies. Russian media lies. All media lies.

It doesn't make us Putin sympathisers to try and gain an impartial standpoint in the midst of all the media nonsense that assails us from every direction at once.


My point is about battlefield casualties. Believing that UKR has been achieving a 6-1 kill ratio against the RUS war machine seems absurd to me. Also that I believe Eagler's OP is accurate in so much as the West contributing to the starting of the current tragedy.

[Eagler]

We know how russian and China media lie...what many don't realize if that the American press is just as full of it given specific subjects...they are just as bias and become a propaganda tool for the government when it's controlled by the lunacy we have there now...

For that reason I don't believe anything these days outright as they have an agenda...and it's not all about truth in reporting sadly

Eagler