Author Topic: Just because…  (Read 823 times)

Offline RotBaron

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Just because…
« on: June 27, 2024, 03:43:19 AM »
Try googling can AI write COAD.

  :uhoh

I was just musing if there’s a remote possibility AI could help to finish any unfinished planes (assuming there’s a few in later stages 🤷‍♂️).

Not what I expected.
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline Meatwad

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2024, 06:04:23 AM »
AI is the devil.
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2024, 06:53:32 AM »
AI can indeed write code.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2024, 07:12:30 AM »
How it started.
 "Gee I wonder if we can use AI to write flight sim code"

How ended.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2024, 08:17:55 AM »
AI can indeed write code.

AI can copy other people snippets of code and paste them together with some tweaking.  AI is not capable of original creative thought.   It can regurgitate some blended together chunks of other humans code and try and duct tape it together.

It sometimes works if the domain and question is very narrow or an extremely common task.  It is very often wrong.  Sometimes is subtle ways that debugging the broken code might take longer than having just written it yourself.  But it will confidently serve up garbage and pretend it is sure this is the answer.

Either way, you can't just blindly trust it, so you end up carefully analyzing it line by line and test and trying to figure out what it screwed up.  That can be very time consuming and harder because that is not your code so you it's not always clear what the intent was.  If he copied code off the web from someone who didn't know what they were doing, that gets thrown it too.

I use it to just throw out a first guess.  At least shows me snippets of possibility and what objects and functions  and modules might be involved.  I then have to manually research and learn about those to the point that I understand it, then go back write my own code completely separately that I know is correct.

It's a slight more advanced Google search at the moment, but not a software engineer.  If he finds code on the net from a junior programmer who unwisely uses a bubble sort where he shouldn't, AI will happily slap that code in not realizing that is very poor practice and will lead to scalability issues down the road. 

AI currently is like hiring a really bad Bangladeshi outsourced coder who just complete a 6 week coding camp and was rickshaw driver before that.  So sure.  Just take his code and paste it into the Space Shuttle software.  It'll be fine. ;)

I would never use AI code directly.  I use it to give me a list of concepts and keywords to go research, learn, and then write my own code.

On very common, simple, straightforward stuff where all the snippets on the web are probably correct, it can be a useful tool to augment the productivity of a skilled, experienced engineer, but the code will have to be written, or debugged and rewritten by someone who has figured it out anyway.

Glad I'm retiring.  In my experience one bad coder can cause more problems, that are more expensive to clean up than they you save on not hiring a better coder to start with.  But it will take management a decade to figure that out.  They just think they are going to save a ton of money on live software engineers.  And it is completely derivative.  It can only massage code others have written for the most part.  It has no creativity and can not innovate something clever and new and ground breaking. 

But like script-kiddie web development laying stuff out on web pages and pulling data in from a db call?  Sure.  A lot of those jobs will get replaced by AI fairly successfully.







« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 08:21:24 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2024, 08:22:52 AM »
There is a difference between creating a purpose for a program and writing the code to achieve that purpose. If you haven't asked Gemini (Bard) to write you some code lately give it a try.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2024, 08:28:46 AM »
There is a difference between creating a purpose for a program and writing the code to achieve that purpose. If you haven't asked Gemini (Bard) to write you some code lately give it a try.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/13/genai-code-mistakes-copilot-gemini-chatgpt

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Offline AKIron

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2024, 08:37:41 AM »
What's both amazing and alarming is how fast AI is improving. If AI cannot reason for real it can do a very good job of mimicking that. If it can reason more reliably than a true consciousness who is to say which is "better"? 
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2024, 09:09:15 AM »
What's both amazing and alarming is how fast AI is improving. If AI cannot reason for real it can do a very good job of mimicking that. If it can reason more reliably than a true consciousness who is to say which is "better"?

AI is improving quickly.  AI is good at faking understanding it may not have.  In some domains that is enough. 
In code, faked understanding usually rears it's head later in possibly very expensive bugs.
There are and will be some limited uses of AI augmentation to help experienced and skilled programmers do a little more a little faster.

Like the internet in general.  Having the internet to be able to quickly search for examples and reference material is a huge force multiplier for developers compared to finding information back when I started coding pre-internet.  Just having interconnected forums where you can quickly ask thousands of experts from a round the globe their opinion on some issue you are running into is a super-power I don't think more kiddies today realize how good they got it.

But tell AI, for market share competitiveness, we need to invent a new way of transferring player state to the server that is at least 40% faster\more efficient than anything currently existing.  See what you get.  Unless someone already has figured that out and posted an example of how to do it on the web, the AI is helpless.  AI can't "invent" or creatively synthesize anything truly new and innovative.  It can search the web really well and if it finds someone else's solution that sounds like it fits, paste it in with some messaging to make something that looks like code.  But if it finds no good match it'll regurgitate something that my be crap.

It doesn't understand that a bubble sort may be ok if you are guaranteed the data space is always going be limited to < 1000 items, but on anything where the number is open ended can cause real problems later on.  It'll run and run fine with 500 items.  Get up to 1000 items and suddenly the processing time isn't twice as slow, but 200x slower.  If the example he found was some jr programmer who made that mistake, AI will happily use that code without understanding the larger performance implications later on. Worse part is, at first that will run fine.  It'll be later in the field that performance mysteriously craters when users actually start using the software in real-world business.

For 30 years I've been reading about how the next CASE tool is going to make software engineers obsolete and make it so anyone, even managers, can write any project without having to knowing a single line of code.  Hmmm OK.   Still waiting.

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Offline AKIron

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2024, 09:52:50 AM »
AI will improve more rapidly when it becomes able and is allowed to improve itself. Much more rapidly.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2024, 10:00:11 AM »
AI will improve more rapidly when it becomes able and is allowed to improve itself. Much more rapidly.

AI will be great at certain domains.  Derivative tasks relying on searching and synthesizing answers from large knowledge maps.

Tech support.

Paralegal.

Scanning x-Rays for subtle shadow patterns and indicators that the doctor might miss but the AI found something similar on an x-ray from another patient 12 years before than turned out to be a problem.

Travel agent.

etc.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2024, 10:03:12 AM »
AI will improve more rapidly when it becomes able and is allowed to improve itself. Much more rapidly.

Trip's First Law of Artificial Intelligence:  AI shall never be allowed to design or implement other AI.



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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2024, 10:28:22 AM »
Great read CptTrips.

 :aok

Quote
In other words, generative AI tools might save time and money upfront in code creation and then eat up those savings at the other end.

Which is exactly what happened when management decided it was such a great idea to ship all development to Banglesesh or Mumbia. Look at all these savings! 
Two years later, nothing but weird bugs and performance problems.  Outsource company out of business or unresponsive in fixing problems.  Eventually an engineer has to take over the code and pour over it and find all that was done badly and try and redesign it all at 3x  the cost it would have been to have just done it properly one time with skilled engineers instead of a a bunch of glorified Fiver shaved-apes.  Manager has already cashed in his bonus for all those cost saving from his outsourcing decision and moved on to another company to do the same.

Cleaning up the mess left behind is for the little people.

Yawn.  I've seen this movie before.



« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 10:50:27 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Just because…
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2024, 11:44:00 AM »
I use AI at work for marketing and job tracking.  It makes mistakes and needs constant correction right now.  Like a child.  It is learning, but not there yet.  Not sure I have total confidence in it's ability to do more complex jobs like math or coding without supervision.  :aok
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