Author Topic: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95  (Read 2921 times)

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2024, 10:46:09 PM »

Chet Atkins. 

My father was so into stereos in the 1960s.  I remember when the local FM station first broadcast in stereo (Columbus, Ohio).  You needed two radios capable of receiving FM, and had to place them in different spots in the room and sit in between them.  It was a special broadcast, I think on one Sunday afternoon.  He was in Heaven.  From then on, he was building stereo receivers from kits (wish I could remember the name of the kit company) (and now I do, Heathkit), soldering the boards, getting such a kick out of it, then building speaker cabinets, wiring it all together.  It continued to fascinate him until personal computers came along.

What, you might ask, does this have to do with Chet Atkins?  One of the first stereo records that we had to play on all this home-built equipment. included a Chet Atkins song, "Back Home in Indiana."  I heard that over and over and over again.  I can hear it now, more than half a century later.  It reminds me of my father, and of all the joy he got from music, up until the Alzheimers took him. 

Thanks, Animal, you brought up good memories for me.

- oldman

Music are triggers :)

My dad was taken by Alzheimers too.

Not so weird, I did the same exact thing with circuits, speaker boxes and wiring things together that should have been in the dumpster before pieced them into something. Couldn't have been more that 13 yrs old.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2024, 11:01:48 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2024, 09:59:53 AM »
Don’t get caught up in the delusional glory facade. Its a life sucking, family destroying sole eating carnival of snakes and throat cutting industry. A lot of intelligent good people have bitten the hook. Your time on stage or FOH with the artist is gold, but its not a good balance outside of that 2 hrs. He insane hours, missing many holidays and bbqs with friends and family, too much time away is a sacrifice many should think twice about. The glory and bragging points is the hook, but thats only a fraction of everything that goes with it. Those that call you “brother” will be the first to cut your throat for your glory chair.

Feb 1 the chain of income comes off my foot too late in life.

Its cool chat to people outside it, hell to everyone inside it.

My last days in it will drip by like drip torcher. A whole lot of stress and attitude will leave my shoulders.

I’m going fishing.

My time on stage with the artist is all I want to remember.

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2024, 07:36:19 PM »
Used to test/EQ sound systems with this one, of many...wide stereo image


« Last Edit: October 24, 2024, 07:43:00 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2024, 11:01:13 AM »

I use two EQ on my pedalboard.   
One with a little bit of gain (in case it's needed) before the amp and the other in the effects loop.

Distortion pedals often require the input EQ'd in a crazy way that's not pleasing to the ears to get them react.
   
The other pedal in the effects loop is to EQ what comes out.   

I use Bohemian Rhapsody because it has crazy hard pans.

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2024, 03:30:38 PM »
I use two EQ on my pedalboard.   
One with a little bit of gain (in case it's needed) before the amp and the other in the effects loop.

Distortion pedals often require the input EQ'd in a crazy way that's not pleasing to the ears to get them react.
   
The other pedal in the effects loop is to EQ what comes out.   

I use Bohemian Rhapsody because it has crazy hard pans.

Good setup. EQ is your bestest friend.

That song would be great to test and EQ for singing vocals and choirs for sure.

While I test in stereo, not so many mixes are in stereo. Depending on the room. Those sitting on the far side can lose perspective of something mixed in the speakers on the opposite side. Those in the center will love it. SO in an arena? prolly not. in a theater setting, I have mixed stereo, everyone is closer to center.

I worked a Roger Waters version of Pink Floyd show,...to run in stereo we had to fly from the rafters L and R line array spkr cabinets all the way around the arena. It added some depth for sure, but was it worth 10+ times the box count? Not IMO.

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2024, 07:52:48 PM »
I remember Pat Travers and Pat Thrall live had one on the right and the other on the left.   


Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2024, 11:10:25 PM »
I remember Pat Travers and Pat Thrall live had one on the right and the other on the left.

Not saying its not done, just not as much as one might think.

When I do, its usually the drums/percussion and gtrs. Most Keyboards flow stereo on their own.

Left is like 10:00, right 2:00 on the knobs. I won’t go further unless its called for as effect, which will stand out more as it moves further than the rest, like left at 9:00 or 8:00. Kinda reaches outside the image.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 11:13:02 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2024, 08:06:40 AM »
They would start the tour with both sides having a mix of both guitars and, over the course of the tour each guitarist would end up with only his sound coming from “his side”.

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2024, 10:10:52 AM »
They would start the tour with both sides having a mix of both guitars and, over the course of the tour each guitarist would end up with only his sound coming from “his side”.

There is no rule. Every sound person has their own approach and its either great or its not. If its dueling gtrs I can see a decision to do that wide. But I basically left FOH to monitors, basically because at the time it was the hardest job few wanted. Which left a lot of work for me, while the rest fought over FOH so they could be seen at the helm.

Every once in a while I’d go in as system operator where the band engineer mixed and I sat with him to babysit the system and not allow someone to cook it. So I watched some band engineers mix FOH, some were just great, some sucked. Its their show, but if they sucked so bad it became a problem I’d remove them and take over. I only had to do that a few times.

Sounds like he was good. If you and I mixed the same band it would prolly sound different. In the old days, with limited gear, in an arena, I’d have 100 feet between speakers, snd prolly not go so wide.

When I had the EAW 850 rig, where the stacks were semi-circle display I went much wider, because audience on the right could hear the stacks on the left.  That was a fun system, one of my favs. Because I could do a full stereo mix everyone heard. Mixing a symphony in stereo was cool because I could steer stereo to each section location on stage.

Pink Floyd Animals tour, they used the Flashlight system and mixed that tour in quadraphonic. That was badars.

Tom Petty took out the EAW Anya system, extremely expensive, it’s a digitally-steerable column loudspeakers. It hangs straight and forward, but uses phasing to steer the sound where ever you want. A stereo mixing dream.

In the 90s Rolling Stones used the DB Sound X box system, it was displayed in semi-circles, again great for stereo mixes. Funny thing about their engineer, he does NOTHING. Barely even EQs anything, if at all. Puts mic in front of instrument cabs, turned ch on throws faders up, thats it. Shocking. The band creates their own sound. Barely, if any, stereo mixing.

For me, mixing stereo depends on several things. Width of seating, width of speaker placement, type of band.

Most engineers, especially monitors, are thinking from second to second for hours. It would take 2-3 hrs after show to slow my brain and adrenaline down. Why I do things for games, my brain loves to haul ars, keep busy. Ya get conditioned. Why instead of partiesI went fishing to wash it down the drain.

I saw Travers as audience in 77 I think. Was a big fan. Years later, mid 80s, I met him when he was playing smaller venues, I was system operator.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 10:16:12 AM by Animl-AW »

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18262
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2024, 11:37:22 AM »
So is it the band or sound dude when a live concert sounds nothing like the album?

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2024, 12:35:18 PM »
So is it the band or sound dude when a live concert sounds nothing like the album?

Eagler

Book of War and Peace.
I'm a live sound engineer, I'm a huge fan of dynamics and exploiting a great sound system. The engineers who mix exactly like the album have a different concept, it also depends on which one the band wants.

Albums are highly compressed so that they sound as good on a great stereo as a car speaker. It's not as desired in quality but it has to be done because it's played on so many different speakers. The more compression the more dynamics is lost. Ya compress the Bass at one level, Drums at another, then those signals go through a group compressor all of them tight together.

It can be both and all of the above. Could be everyone had a bad day. Many varibles, and I'd have to be there and see what he's doing to know why.

In Analog times someone who could mix exactly like the album was a SOBER highly skilled engineer, to mix every song as it was mixed on the album. he had to ride every fader. A gtr solo, that fader goes up, when done it comes down and the KB solo comes up,...labor mentally intensive. But then, finding a sober band in the Analog days was kinda rare. So it was a battle.

The band has to have a good solid balanced stage sound, the lower the stage volume the better. This way the engineer isn't mixing around the stage sound to balance the mix, he's mixing the system as he wishes. In Ear Monitors (IEM) made the FOH guys job much eaiers, because their mix on stage was pumped directly into the ear instead of monitor speaks blaring across stage. Ya hear the system, not the stage sound.

To mix exactly like the album requires weeks to months in a rehearsal warehouse. The band must be sober and playing all their parts exactly as recorded on the album to start with. And the engineer must keep notes or a awesome memory to get it right every time. We keep them in line with hidden teleprompters.

Today in the digital world it's more common to get that album sound because it's a computers with knobs and sliders, and MEMORY and servo motors. Today faders have servo motors and can remember where it was during that song, it's then saved to a scene.

SO, if I go into rehearsals for several weeks to work on every single song, and record and play back the mix to the band, and let them tell me what adjustments are needed. Awesome. I can take the mix for that song, save it to a thumb drive as a scene. Now when that song is labels Scene 12, I hit the scene 12 button and all the faders move by themselves to exactly where they were during rehearsals. Next song is scene 13...etc..

So, there are MANY varibiles to come together for that album mix. again, I'm a fan of exploiting the system capabilities and deep dynamics.

I'm posting a video of Jason Aldean's FOH guy. I am NOT fond of how he gets there, but he is known to hit that album sound.....but he is over-processing the signal to get there, and I'm not a big fan of so much compression. in the end he's not so much mixing as he's babysitting compressors.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 12:54:42 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2024, 02:43:40 PM »
Since about 83-85 I moved over to Monitor Engineer, been in that seat since, except corperate stuff I do FOH OR A2 which is micing everyone up.
So this is what I do.

I also worked with George Thourghgood



Execute a show- go fishing :)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 03:05:09 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2024, 05:05:14 PM »
Was with dis guy in 07. Child prodigy at age 11

« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 05:07:09 PM by Animl-AW »

Offline Animl-AW

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3291
      • Aces High Tech Hangar
Re: Vid from my past - Jefferson Starship 95
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2024, 05:10:12 PM »