Author Topic: typical morning but more so  (Read 915 times)

Offline Shane

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2024, 11:26:57 AM »
This just makes me  :rofl :rofl.
The horde of 18 is getting in to one front yet I see friendlies either in bombers for hours to trying to milk rook bases.

Yes, you do, and you see the same from rooks on those rare occasions bish are swarming them.  No one wants to go up against overwhelming odds day after day - it loses entertainment value. It's also not easy to try and retake bases when the swarm has more than sufficient players to put up a defense, or are even just continuing to pile up 30% plus of knit bases then fade out as the daily pattern continues.

Gameplay is hurting because we as a community are validating a small set of players crying, "my $15!"  Yes, it is your $15, it is also others' $15. This is a game, right?  People are trying to shame the wrong people and shaming only works when there's something to be ashamed of - this is why it doesn't work on me, I can't be shamed for pointing out truths. Does this mean the morning swarm truth is exactly that, that these players cannot bring themselves to make the game fun for all involved, not just their own selfish selves?
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2024, 11:28:19 AM »
A couple ideas here. I know some have been thrown around but based on my experiences with other games my perspectives have changed.

FTP: I think this is critical if you are going to get younger players. In the games that I play that have younger players it's because they don't have a credit card and they play any games that are free or have free versions of them. Most parents are not gong to pay a $15 a month sub for their kids. These kids are usually teenagers and usually have friends that they would bring along. From what I recall HT was concerned that everybody would cancel their sub and go to a FTP account. I don't think this is true because of games like WWII online who have multiple levels of subscription and if I recall correctly the highest level is "builder" and it's close to $50 a month people pay. I really think after playing other games (some which of massive numbers of players) that his is a big barrier to adding numbers, especially youth in the day and age)

Addition of AI: One of the games I play a lot has an option for battles that last less then an hour. The battle starts with something like 20 players on each side and 20 AI on each side. The AI are all ground attack or bomber aircraft at low alt. The attack ground targets and can have a major effect on the war if they are not dealt with. The good thing about the AI implementation is that it gives new or less skilled players the ability to get kills and learn gunnery skills etc. (it keeps them engaged)

Early/Mid war. I think bringing these arenas back and offering a ftp version of high ENY planes would be a positive for those who enjoy the smaller maps and with some AI from the match play arena it would give new FTP players a place to start fighting with each other without getting thrown in the deep end at the very beginning.

Two countries: Most all the other sims that I currently have a 2 country war and are somehow still successful. I'm not sure why people are convinced that it is not possible for a 2 country situation to work. I'm not sure that it would fix the balance problem but it would be interesting to see how it changed the dynamics and could always be rolled back.

I know some of this stuff has been discussed already but I'm trying to explain my reasoning behind it because I see the effort that people like Animl-AW are putting into this stuff and I think that maybe somebody who has HTs ear may be able to help by considering some changes on a trial basis that would add numbers.

I don't think any of this stuff would take much dev time. The match play AI already exists and the other stuff shouldn't be difficult to set up using custom arena settings.


Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2024, 11:49:22 AM »
Yes, you do, and you see the same from rooks on those rare occasions bish are swarming them.  No one wants to go up against overwhelming odds day after day - it loses entertainment value. It's also not easy to try and retake bases when the swarm has more than sufficient players to put up a defense, or are even just continuing to pile up 30% plus of knit bases then fade out as the daily pattern continues.

Gameplay is hurting because we as a community are validating a small set of players crying, "my $15!"  Yes, it is your $15, it is also others' $15. This is a game, right?  People are trying to shame the wrong people and shaming only works when there's something to be ashamed of - this is why it doesn't work on me, I can't be shamed for pointing out truths. Does this mean the morning swarm truth is exactly that, that these players cannot bring themselves to make the game fun for all involved, not just their own selfish selves?

Sadly, the only way to stop them is to stop them. Either wish for new Knight recruits to join in the wee hours of the morning or have everyone go Bish.

I kind of think they would actually enjoy reseting an entire map with absolute 0 resistance.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2024, 12:27:37 PM »
A couple ideas here. I know some have been thrown around but based on my experiences with other games my perspectives have changed.

FTP: I think this is critical if you are going to get younger players. In the games that I play that have younger players it's because they don't have a credit card and they play any games that are free or have free versions of them. Most parents are not gong to pay a $15 a month sub for their kids. These kids are usually teenagers and usually have friends that they would bring along. From what I recall HT was concerned that everybody would cancel their sub and go to a FTP account. I don't think this is true because of games like WWII online who have multiple levels of subscription and if I recall correctly the highest level is "builder" and it's close to $50 a month people pay. I really think after playing other games (some which of massive numbers of players) that his is a big barrier to adding numbers, especially youth in the day and age)

Addition of AI: One of the games I play a lot has an option for battles that last less then an hour. The battle starts with something like 20 players on each side and 20 AI on each side. The AI are all ground attack or bomber aircraft at low alt. The attack ground targets and can have a major effect on the war if they are not dealt with. The good thing about the AI implementation is that it gives new or less skilled players the ability to get kills and learn gunnery skills etc. (it keeps them engaged)

Early/Mid war. I think bringing these arenas back and offering a ftp version of high ENY planes would be a positive for those who enjoy the smaller maps and with some AI from the match play arena it would give new FTP players a place to start fighting with each other without getting thrown in the deep end at the very beginning.

Two countries: Most all the other sims that I currently have a 2 country war and are somehow still successful. I'm not sure why people are convinced that it is not possible for a 2 country situation to work. I'm not sure that it would fix the balance problem but it would be interesting to see how it changed the dynamics and could always be rolled back.

I know some of this stuff has been discussed already but I'm trying to explain my reasoning behind it because I see the effort that people like Animl-AW are putting into this stuff and I think that maybe somebody who has HTs ear may be able to help by considering some changes on a trial basis that would add numbers.

I don't think any of this stuff would take much dev time. The match play AI already exists and the other stuff shouldn't be difficult to set up using custom arena settings.

A FTP HTC hosted early war arena would be fun. Especially on a small map. It would give players a chance to learn and understand the game. Give players on the fence a chance to see the game, and it would probably entice them to want to try the MA. I certainly agree that what the game is missing the most is a feeder arena that people and noobs can fly in with no score and quick action so they can get into the action. Flying for 10 minutes and then seeing action, and then dying fast, seems like a time loss and most people just don't have the patience.

A FTP early war arena could be set up in a custom game too. Just need to spend time setting it up, and sitting in the arena waiting for players to show up. That's the tough part. This is why small maps matter. With 5 players on, you want to know where they are and be able to get into the action and skrimish over a few bases in the same area. Big maps overwhelm the eyes. It's why Smog8 was such a great map during team death match H2H.

AI would be fine in it's own arena, but not in the MA, only because it will have major implications on scoring and of course how do you yell at a AI about it picking you! And what level of skill do you put them at, ect? Just too tough to put in the MA. They are really good in the match play already and it's actually great for practice, however I feel the hurricanes are just too tough. Should be replaced with like a P40 or something. Hurricanes with super E are too tough for most noobs.

2 sides just isn't going to work. No other game really has the global atmosphere that AH has. Server matches are a bit different. Heck, even the real war had more than 2 teams. 2 teams will just become lopsided too. Plus you'd have to redo all of the maps. But I would prefer to have custom arenas like TDM like H2H use to have where there was 2 teams and it was smaller and more compact type of battles.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2024, 12:30:06 PM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2024, 01:31:34 PM »
It is definitely up to the players to make it better or worse. You would think having even teams would mean more fun for everyone...... but......
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 12:22:17 PM »
A FTP early war arena could be set up in a custom game too. Just need to spend time setting it up, and sitting in the arena waiting for players to show up. That's the tough part. This is why small maps matter. With 5 players on, you want to know where they are and be able to get into the action and skrimish over a few bases in the same area. Big maps overwhelm the eyes. It's why Smog8 was such a great map during team death match H2H.

AI would be fine in it's own arena, but not in the MA, only because it will have major implications on scoring and of course how do you yell at a AI about it picking you! And what level of skill do you put them at, ect? Just too tough to put in the MA. They are really good in the match play already and it's actually great for practice, however I feel the hurricanes are just too tough. Should be replaced with like a P40 or something. Hurricanes with super E are too tough for most noobs.

I set up a small arena a few times with a small island map with 3 bases. I think the map was called myterr. The problem is that I don't think new players would know to go under the player tab to find it. When we did have even 4 or 5 players it was a bunch of fun as the bases were so close together. If somebody who knew how to add vehicle spawns to that map and put them all to spawn in the middle of the small map I think it would have even been fun for the misguided GVer types.

I think the AI could be used to compensate for numbers and I was thinking as the numbers dropped that more AI could spawn on the side with lower numbers. I agree with you that it would be a problem for those that are concerned about score if the AI counted for score. I think a setup where AI only gave a small amount of ENY points and did not affect score might help new people to gain enough points to want to play in the MA and get some rocketship rides.

The reason I'm bringing these points is that since I've been playing some of the other games (some with massive numbers) I've seen what works for those games and think that if AH adopted some of those same kind of environments that it might be easier to convince people to try if it seems a little more familiar to them.

I would love to see AH3 become competitive again, however I think if things don't change I think that the results will continue to be the same and at some point in the future it will end up like warbirds sadly. I just checked warbirds and in all arenas there are a total of 6 players online with 3 in the MA on a Saturday afternoon. It looks like they are still charging $14 a month sub model with a 2 week free trial.

Maybe someday I'll be back in AH3 if things change but for now I'm going to go fly my F-82 with a gun pod for a total of 14 center-line mounted .50 cals.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 12:31:04 PM »
I set up a small arena a few times with a small island map with 3 bases. I think the map was called myterr. The problem is that I don't think new players would know to go under the player tab to find it. When we did have even 4 or 5 players it was a bunch of fun as the bases were so close together. If somebody who knew how to add vehicle spawns to that map and put them all to spawn in the middle of the small map I think it would have even been fun for the misguided GVer types.



Yup, that part in bold I've mentioned before as well. I dislike how there are tabs. I'm not sure if noobs see the tab either. There was something about H2H that drew people there where as the current clipboard with tabs seems to not have the same pull for custom arenas.
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Online The Fugitive

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 02:10:00 PM »
I set up a small arena a few times with a small island map with 3 bases. I think the map was called myterr. The problem is that I don't think new players would know to go under the player tab to find it. When we did have even 4 or 5 players it was a bunch of fun as the bases were so close together. If somebody who knew how to add vehicle spawns to that map and put them all to spawn in the middle of the small map I think it would have even been fun for the misguided GVer types.

I think the AI could be used to compensate for numbers and I was thinking as the numbers dropped that more AI could spawn on the side with lower numbers. I agree with you that it would be a problem for those that are concerned about score if the AI counted for score. I think a setup where AI only gave a small amount of ENY points and did not affect score might help new people to gain enough points to want to play in the MA and get some rocketship rides.

The reason I'm bringing these points is that since I've been playing some of the other games (some with massive numbers) I've seen what works for those games and think that if AH adopted some of those same kind of environments that it might be easier to convince people to try if it seems a little more familiar to them.

I would love to see AH3 become competitive again, however I think if things don't change I think that the results will continue to be the same and at some point in the future it will end up like warbirds sadly. I just checked warbirds and in all arenas there are a total of 6 players online with 3 in the MA on a Saturday afternoon. It looks like they are still charging $14 a month sub model with a 2 week free trial.

Maybe someday I'll be back in AH3 if things change but for now I'm going to go fly my F-82 with a gun pod for a total of 14 center-line mounted .50 cals.
I piddy da fool that tries to HO me!

What games have massive numbers?

Offline JimmyD3

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 02:16:21 PM »
What games have massive numbers?

What he asked!!!!!!
 I know of NO GAME that has the ability to handle the numbers AH3 can handle. When you say massive, I visualize 800 to a 1000.
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Offline fudgums

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 03:54:39 PM »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 04:09:21 PM »
I think the cost is sharply skewed.

In the old days, maybe today, ya bought a game from a store and got to play free. But what you got for free was very small cheesy servers, mostly very questionable, same what you have today. Some are good, many not so much. Pot-luck.

Its the cheap way to give something free without heavy cost. Ya get what you pay for. But the experience is not like large MP arenas, buy far. Ya might get better graphics but everything else is substandard.

Here ya get the game free (20 yrs of programming without having to buy it again) and pay to play on very large stable arenas with a lot more players and a lot more room to do cool stuff.

I know of no other game that offers massive MP arenas.

Offline hazmatt

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #41 on: Today at 02:05:28 AM »
What games have massive numbers?

146,893 currently online in WT at 2am CST. Obviously they're not all in the same arena. What I was saying was a massive number of players that play the game. Seems some think that meant all in one arena.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:14:42 AM by hazmatt »

Offline hazmatt

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #42 on: Today at 02:08:25 AM »
I know of no other game that offers massive MP arenas.

I think the cost is skewed in that I could see somebody playing a monthly fee to play with 500 other players simultaneously. Sadly there hasn't been massive numbers for a while.

My contributions to this thread were meant to be positive suggestions, however, it seems that this is starting to get back to the "my game is better then you're game" thing that seems to come up when suggestions are made based on experiences in other games.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:19:15 AM by hazmatt »

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #43 on: Today at 07:55:28 AM »
I think the cost is skewed in that I could see somebody playing a monthly fee to play with 500 other players simultaneously. Sadly there hasn't been massive numbers for a while.

My contributions to this thread were meant to be positive suggestions, however, it seems that this is starting to get back to the "my game is better then you're game" thing that seems to come up when suggestions are made based on experiences in other games.

Naw, you made some good points like the younger not having cc cards.

Every game has its pros and cons. I’m sure there is plenty of dweebery in every game.

Offline popeye

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Re: typical morning but more so
« Reply #44 on: Today at 08:14:30 AM »
Apparently, subscription gaming is not all that unusual.  AH is the only game that I play, so don't know anything about the other subscription services, but found this interesting:

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/12/sega-is-evaluating-its-own-netflix-style-subscription-service
« Last Edit: Today at 08:35:22 AM by popeye »
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