Author Topic: DeepSeek  (Read 1045 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2025, 05:51:44 PM »
I wonder what Suchir Balaji knew...

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2025, 05:57:14 PM »
With all the chinese techno garbage in the usa and around the world connected to the internet, where do you think the chinese ai gets all its computing power from?

Same place OpenAI does.  Same places Gemini and CopPilot do.

The differences are how that data is massaged and structured once gathered.  And in certain cases, censored for sensitive topics.

https://medium.com/@agrawatkamal/unveiling-openais-data-collection-insights-into-obtaining-data-sets-for-advanced-ai-models-bcfde2c1c19f


Quote
One of the primary methods employed by OpenAI for data collection is web scraping. Through automated tools and techniques, OpenAI extracts text data from a multitude of online sources. Websites, blogs, forums, news articles, and other publicly available content serve as valuable sources for training their language models. By crawling the web and capturing textual information, OpenAI ensures a vast and varied data set that enables their models to comprehend and generate text across a wide range of topics and contexts.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 06:02:39 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2025, 06:13:22 PM »
They block the Oclub though  :banana:

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Offline Gman

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2025, 01:01:19 AM »
While Deepseek's code is open source, the app itself that everyone is downloading and using at the moment is run and hosted in China and everything going through it is being sent and stored in China.  Open source users who have the hardware and knowledge to run DS can certainly dispense with their app, but I'd wage that is a minority of people, especially right now when it's the shiny new toy.


Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2025, 05:42:00 AM »
Damn, looks like Goerge Webb gonna be right again about Open AI and Suchir Balaji. Now this is interesting.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2025, 05:43:36 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline Eagler

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2025, 07:40:48 AM »
While Deepseek's code is open source, the app itself that everyone is downloading and using at the moment is run and hosted in China and everything going through it is being sent and stored in China.  Open source users who have the hardware and knowledge to run DS can certainly dispense with their app, but I'd wage that is a minority of people, especially right now when it's the shiny new toy.

This..son at Cisco cyber security stated the same thing

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Offline Gman

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2025, 08:50:51 AM »
Violator - watch this, or start at 7:00 or so, only take 30 seconds to see my point here.  I trust this source over the CCP every day of the week.  Looks like when I joked here about DS costing 5 billion instead of million, that $5B is likely a more accurate estimate of actual cost. 




Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2025, 09:11:30 AM »
While Deepseek's code is open source, the app itself that everyone is downloading and using at the moment is run and hosted in China and everything going through it is being sent and stored in China.  Open source users who have the hardware and knowledge to run DS can certainly dispense with their app, but I'd wage that is a minority of people, especially right now when it's the shiny new toy.

Yeah.  So I guess it's how you want to weigh what's happening.

I personally don't care about the Deepseek as an app.  I'm not claiming that Deepseek as an app or service is going to take over the world.

I personally wouldn't install an Deepseek app on any device.  I might query a web site through the web page, but no, I wouldn't install any Chinese binary on a device of mine.

And the the coding assistant AI version of its code is open source, but not all portions of its general app are.

To me personally, the value of Deepseek is not the app or the service. To me it's a source for Western companies to look at and figure out the clever tricks even the coding assistant code is use to search the LLM so efficiently.  I would then take that knowledge and go off and write my own code from scratch.

The only thing I want from Deepseek is the Ah hah moment of their faster reasoning engine tricks and optimizations. 

I just want the algorithm.  I already know how to type code.

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2025, 09:28:43 AM »
Damn, looks like Goerge Webb gonna be right again about Open AI and Suchir Balaji. Now this is interesting.

I saw that.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

But again.  From my point of view, which might be narrow, how and where they acquired the datasets is not that interesting.  It might explain how they did it so cheap, but there is still the possibility that they have superior model search and reasoning chain algorithms. 

Datasets are going to be a commodity.  Companies will be selling\licensing just the datasets as products that have been web-scraped and trained.  Both general dataset and specialized domain datasets like those that might be trained for financial or engineering knowledge.  But you still need searching and reasoning code.  To me THAT is where the secret sauce lives. I think web-scraping and dataset pruning and training are already well understood.

What is needed is better search and reasoning logic that doesn't take a small city sized server farm to use that data.

So steal the algorithm, use the datasets you already have.  Forget the Deepseek app.  That is where I see the value for Western startups.



Unless the search\reasoning algorithm is crap, in which case we will learn pretty quick because we have most of the source.  If that turns out ot be the case, then nevermind. ;)

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Offline AKIron

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2025, 10:03:52 AM »
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2025, 10:34:40 AM »


Every read how Dell reverse engineered the IBM PC?   :D



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Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2025, 12:11:23 PM »

A good discussion:



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Offline Eagler

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2025, 01:16:21 PM »
Hasn't china gotten by technology wise by bypassing r&d and just stealing others hard work and making their copy of whatever?

It's not the same here?

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2025, 01:56:58 PM »
Hasn't china gotten by technology wise by bypassing r&d and just stealing others hard work and making their copy of whatever?

It's not the same here?


We of course should do everything we can to stop them, but...

https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53



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Offline AKIron

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Re: DeepSeek
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2025, 02:51:36 PM »
Remember the Opium Wars? It's really up to each to defend their own.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.