Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar

[Eagler]

Is under radar 100ft and under?

Can we get dots in the MA arena?

Sounds good to me 

Eagler

[Randy1]

The radar without delay offered  GVs and airplanes the ability to project the time of an expected air attack.  That is now gone.

With the deforestation of the maps, the distance between hiding places is very large at times.  Timing of an approaching fighter or set of bombers is very important to allow time to hide.   Harding of the ammo bunkers just makes this worse.

On storchs.  Often what is often seen is the enemy icon not the vehicle itself.  Same with fighters and bombers searching for GVs.

The number of full-time base defenders is ever increasing since it is the safest, and most point rewarding for those that are points hungry. 

Attacking an enemy base takes a lot of time as well as high risk with radar delay, hardened ammo bunkers, short base-town defending spawns, and full time defenders.  This hurts the action in the game.  If no one attacks, game over.

[Banshee7]

Here is what I am planning to do with radar. This is the plan, not a finished feature, so details may change as we test it.

The map will show enemy contacts 2 different ways.

Radar contacts
A plane within range of your side's radar and above radar height shows on the map as it does today. Position updates will be faster, something like every 5 seconds. Between updates the contact fades to about 25%, so you can tell how old the position is.

Seen contacts
Being near an enemy will no longer put him on your side's map. Someone on your side has to actually see him. You have seen him if he is within vis range and really in your view, so he does not count if he is off screen, behind your canopy frame, behind terrain or in the sun, or if either of you is inside a cloud. As soon as anyone on your side sees him he shows on your side's map. He stays while anyone keeps seeing him and for a little while after. Seen contacts have their own update rate, 20 seconds by default.

What this means in play
Flying under radar no longer shows you just because an enemy is nearby. If nobody spots you, you stay off their map. Flying inside a cloud, the sun and blind spots now hide you from the whole enemy side, not just the one pilot. Keeping your eyes on a contact helps your team.

Plain dots
Each arena can choose, for each type of contact, to show full detail or just a plain dot. Full detail is plane type and heading, as now. A dot tells you something is there but not what it is or where it is going. So an arena could show radar contacts as dots and seen contacts in full detail.

Your own side does not change. Friendly planes still show with full detail.

GVs may also be able to show as seen contacts. That would be an arena setting.

HiTech

Sounds interesting! I like it!

[Lazerr]

So enemy radar blips will now just be dots?  If so, good.

[LilMak]

Here is what I am planning to do with radar. This is the plan, not a finished feature, so details may change as we test it.

The map will show enemy contacts 2 different ways.

Seen contacts
Being near an enemy will no longer put him on your side's map. Someone on your side has to actually see him. You have seen him if he is within vis range and really in your view, so he does not count if he is off screen, behind your canopy frame, behind terrain or in the sun, or if either of you is inside a cloud. As soon as anyone on your side sees him he shows on your side's map. He stays while anyone keeps seeing him and for a little while after. Seen contacts have their own update rate, 20 seconds by default.

While this seems like a minor improvement over what I’ve been calling AWACS. It also seems like it basically feeds real time radar data to the clipboard of the enemy whenever I’m in view. Which is my entire gripe. It still would vector any aircraft in the vicinity to my exact location and would paint a picture of exactly how whatever engagement I’m in is going. And it would get worse as more enemy aircraft showed up and got “eyes” on me. Basically making me visible to all on the clipboard and propagating the same horde-like nature that high refresh AWACS already does.

Now, if it was delayed (20 seconds) and only “refreshed” when a second enemy got “eyes” on me, that might be alright.

[Spikes]

While this seems like a minor improvement over what I’ve been calling AWACS. It also seems like it basically feeds real time radar data to the clipboard of the enemy whenever I’m in view. Which is my entire gripe. It still would vector any aircraft in the vicinity to my exact location and would paint a picture of exactly how whatever engagement I’m in is going. And it would get worse as more enemy aircraft showed up and got “eyes” on me. Basically making me visible to all on the clipboard and propagating the same horde-like nature that high refresh AWACS already does.

Now, if it was delayed (20 seconds) and only “refreshed” when a second enemy got “eyes” on me, that might be alright.

It seems to me like a player needs to have actual view on someone for it to paint on the CBM. It eliminates climbing out and having the CBM up and it painting everything that comes within icon range, be it above, behind, or below.

Why not see how it plays out instead of immediately complaining about it before it is even in the game?

[Randy1]

I think many years ago, Hitech described AH as a game based on a simulation.   Note sure that is an actual quote or if it was even HiTech.

The point being some parts of the game deviate from the simulation to improve game play.  Action is very important which are the roots of game play.

[LilMak]

It seems to me like a player needs to have actual view on someone for it to paint on the CBM. It eliminates climbing out and having the CBM up and it painting everything that comes within icon range, be it above, behind, or below.

Why not see how it plays out instead of immediately complaining about it before it is even in the game?

I am absolutely not complaining. HT is throwing out his ideas and I’m trying to point out why it may not work as intended. HT knows more than anyone that changes can have unintended consequences. I’m just pointing out how I see what he’s proposing going into effect. I don’t like complaining about the radar anymore than the people here like seeing me do so. Taking AWACS away and replacing it with AWACS 2.1 is not going to help with my primary gripe which is being spoon fed to multiple cons who have an additional situational advantage along with a numbers advantage.

The description points out that simply being in icon range does not put you on the clipboard. Great! However, it also appears from the description that “seeing” an enemy puts you on it and any other enemy seeing you puts you on it as well. Based on the description, the only way my airplane is removed from the clipboard is when the enemy doesn’t see me for 20 seconds. When was the last time anyone lost eyes on a contact for 20 seconds in a dogfight? Let me answer that…Only after they were dead. My supposition is that my icon will update on enemy clipboards at a 5 second rate as long as someone is looking at me. Which is basically AWACS unless I can cross 6k of airspace without someone looking in my direction.

I could be misunderstanding what HT is throwing out. But I don’t think so.

[hitech]

My supposition is that my icon will update on enemy clipboards at a 5 second rate as long as someone is looking at me. Which is basically AWACS unless I can cross 6k of airspace without someone looking in my direction.

It would be at a longer rate like 20 or more secs.

HiTech

[Eagler]

It would be at a longer rate like 20 or more secs.

HiTech

Sounding better and better..

How do you determine when a plane sees another plane..when an icon 1st comes into a players field of vision..or do dots count..

Eagler

[Animl-AW]

More is never enough.

Not everyone agrees with these few. There are other human players, some agree, some are angry.

How about this single voice take a breather.

[Dadtallica]

I enjoy it less and less every day. Doesn’t really motivate me to stay logged in more than a couple sorties. I decided I don’t like the fading at all either.

This could’ve been left alone nobody would’ve cared.

[caldera]

I think it should be real time updates of friendlies everywhere and enemy dots only visible in friendly base radar cones, with radar towers damage resistance heavily fortified.  Otherwise, darbars should suffice for the rest of the map.

[nrshida]

Not everyone agrees with these few. There are other human players, some agree, some are angry.

Likely the people resisting change so vehemently are the ones who're content to ride the game in to destruction as long as they can keep plowing their familiar tiny groove hour after hour, day after day.

[Dadtallica]

Likely the people resisting change so vehemently are the ones who're content to ride the game in to destruction as long as they can keep plowing their familiar tiny groove hour after hour, day after day.

Sorry, but the reason I played this game over any of the others is because of the less need for completely immersing myself in the winter of 1943.