Author Topic: Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:  (Read 3410 times)

Offline lazs2

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Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2002, 11:10:43 AM »
slightly closer fields (3/4 sector)  and tougher cv's would eliminate about 90% of the problems being discussed here.
lazs

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2002, 03:15:19 PM »
Great post eskimo!  Dejavu's reply was very good as well, giving an alternative perspective to the discussion.

There has been some suggestions to start an alternative to MA. I think that it would be a good idea. In my opinion, an arena with the changes that Eskimo suggested would be a nice starting point.

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Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2002, 09:30:12 AM »
bump

Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Well.... since the usual suspects have chimed in on a back slapping orgy....  I will give the opposition viewpoint.  

Every "problem"  called out in the post is really a bonus.   Strat?   Admit it... when you tell people about this game do you really have the balls to tell em about the capturer the flag aspect?   It's friggin embarassing.   I tell em you get to chose from 20 or so different fighter planes that have the same flight models and damage and gunnery as the real ones did... I tell em that you get to fly in an arena with 400 other guys from around the world and shoot each other down.   I tell em you can actually talk to each other on "roger wilco'" and that there are three "countries" with anyone from another country fair game...   They get very interested...   If you try to explain the "strat"  the light goes out and you can see em thinking what a kids game it is and what a dork you must be...  

If all those ideas were implemented we would have a game every bit as boring (worse even) than the CT and about as populated after a month or so... except that even tempered zigrat would "be back".    The game would be a radarless late war only game of hide and seek and mission gangbanging.    Only people with no life (as opposed to "one life") would be able to "enjoy"  (i use the word loosely) the "game"  (again, loosely).    There would be no place for lone wolfs or people who liked slower planes or didn't have 4 hrs a day to spend "playing"  at formation flying.

Anyhow... eskimo writes well.   He's just wrong.
lazs

Offline beet1e

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eskimo2 - I heartily agree
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2002, 06:08:41 AM »
An excellent post, Eskimo2; I think it is no exaggeration to cite this as the best post I’ve ever read on this board, although I have come to it late and have not digested all replies.

I absolutely agree with your proposed changes to bar-dar settings. Indeed, all of your suggestions would introduce major new incentives for working together as a team.

In my earlier post I made reference to “AH as it was meant to be”. Laz2 quickly retorted along the lines of allowing each paying subscriber to decide how he wants it to be. And it would seem that many in the MA want nothing more than furball dweebery and gangbangery. For guys like Laz2 to say it’s up to the players is rather like buying an expensive concert grand piano, and using it to play Chopsticks, or nursery rhymes like Mary Had a Little Lamb. What a waste of a good instrument!  For all some of these guys appreciate the strategic elements in the game, we might as well have an arena in which there were three islands, with a single airfield on each capable of launching fighters only.

In my experience as a WW2 gamer, the most rewarding mission was that of capturing territory and pushing back frontiers. All this flying around just picking off cons, most of which have re-launched by the time you finish your 30 minute sortie, just to boost score sheet and ego, is a waste of time. OK, I know we all go through that in the process of learning how to engage in combat, but for many it has become their raison d’être. I would probably have stayed the same had I not seen some hardworking opponents engaged in jabo missions to destroy my field and then capture it. Suddenly, I didn’t think I was such a hotshot anymore. BUT… some guys faced with the same situation will simply switch sides :rolleyes:

I vote that Eskimo2 be given a seat on the Board at HTC and be given executive powers to decide upon game strategy changes :) We have to accept that there ARE those guys who want nothing more than gangbangs and furballs. We can’t deny them this, as they are paying their monthly $14.95. But what we DO need is a thinking man’s environment; one in which strategic missions are given the chance to succeed alongside and in spite of furball and gangbang dweebery. When the furballers realise that their involvement with skirmishes and non-involvement with the WAR is costing them field after field after field, two things might happen. 1) The no-brainers will switch to whichever side is winning. 2) The thinking man will want to discover how to push back his own frontiers. This cannot be done alone, and will require teamwork. No more ignoring friends in trouble. No more ”I-can’t-be-bothered-to-give-you-a-6-call;-I-don’t-care-if-you-die-because-it’s-only-a-game" attitudes. No more stealing your friend’s kills by diving on his prey when it’s already ¾ dead, getting credit for the kill but also creating a killshooter death of your friend. Those days will have to be consigned to the annals of AH history.

If eskimo2’s changes are put into effect, and more and more people rise to the challenge of strategic missions then maybe, just maybe, AH will finally enjoy a Community Spirit.

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2002, 06:46:43 AM »
You describe a HTH server Beet1 amoungst friends or rival "clans" i think they call them. Which ironically works better than the CT for "you get this, you do that, and there ya have the server strat. Have fun or not, it's up to you." The CT provides bandwidth for more players, but still, the HTH is a great alternative considering the CT usage.

The clients you seem to cater this strat imposed ideal of "non-involvement with the WAR is costing them field after field after field" and they will "switch sides or discover how to push back frontiers" is kinda silly. If they cared, why would they furball in the first place? Cuz they want to furball.

Hey, don't blame me for pointing it out, nor the HTC finance department. They accept the dues from the furballers, and the strat guys, and keep doing so because the mayhem in the MA somehow produces fun for all, without predujice, and that's a feat in itself.

It's HTC's trick and ultimate nitch in the WWII massive online sim market they just excell at. Quite well to my enjoyment btw.

I doubt Eskimo's changes (whatever they are) will make me rich if implemented, but I'm buying lotsa stock in HTC just in case I'm so wrong.

No, just kidding, I ain't.

(your cheerleading skirt is at the dry-cleaners AKDeja, I spilt a Kessler coke on it. Sorry.)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2002, 06:51:51 AM by Creamo »

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2002, 06:55:37 AM »
Creamo, you are right - many of the furballer's don't care, but quite a number of them might be new players who don't yet know any better. When these players realise that despite their prowess as a fighter jock, their territory is being eroded away, they will hopefully realise that there is more to AH than furballing, and will want to engage in strategic missions to recapture lost fields.

As for the no-brainers, they will be happy to switch sides.

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2002, 07:03:15 AM »
True. I find each side of the argument justified and fun, although now that the server is at 400 players, a massive furball is downright warptarded. Finally a mission is fun to attend.

Dismissing anyone's ideal of gameplay though, is thin ice, if not futile.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2002, 10:40:59 AM »
beetle... despite your low opinion of guys that wish to fight rather than to organize a gangbang... you have unwittingly hit on a grain of truth.  

People will "participate" if it is fun.   As it is, the strat is lame and embarassing but worse... It is custom made to bore the crap outta normal people who only play an hour or two at a session.   You played WB and the strat was basically the same.   Most still didn't give a crap about it, just like here, but they "participated"... Not because they realized that the greater glory of green or red or whatever was at stake but because the fields were closer and the fields fell faster.   The front moved along at a faster pace more conducive to the casual player.  

In AH if someone has an hour to play they don't want to waste it doing nothing (relatively) and then not even getting to fight much for all the trouble with.... no real reward or... impact.

moving the fields slightly closer together and having em fall faster will produce higher levels of percieved co-operation.   You can imagine that they are all following your orders.

Oh.. to me..  the stratavarious part of AH is the flight, gunnery and damage models along with the fact that you can fight so many different FM's and gunnery modeles.   To play the strat part is like playing chopsticks on said stratavarious.   You are wasting all those good FM's, gunnery etc..   And what is the tradeoff??  gimicky capture the flag unrealism and bogus bomb effects.
lazs

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2002, 11:00:14 AM »
lol, why tape Howard Stern anymore. This is way funnier, minus the porn dike midget wrestling.

Impossibly good banter. despite your low opinion of guys that wish to fight rather than to organize a gangbang

Wow, hats off to that dig, I'm fixated. Really.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2002, 11:05:46 AM by Creamo »

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2002, 11:08:58 AM »
Lazshole, I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again:

I am a furballer,
I am a base attacker,
I am a GV killer,
I am a vulcher, and I am a base defender,
I am a dogfighter, and I am a HOer.
I am a gangbanger, and I have been gangbanged,
I am a buff driver, both high and low.
I am a tanker and an AA gunner.
I am cruiser and shore gunner.
I am a CV killer, and a CV driver.
I am a PT boat driver,
I am a strat guy
I know many planes fairly well,
And I even fly the goon.

Lazshole,
I do it all.
I understand the appeal of furballing.
But because I do it all, I am able to view the game from all perspectives based on experience, not uneducated guesswork. I know what makes it fun from all perspectives.
I respect the opinion of furballers'on furballing.
But I do not respect the opinion of furballers' who claim to have some "overall vision" of the game (that they can't or won't even explain in accurate detail) that is not based on any firsthand knowledge of any aspects of the game other than furballing.
Your self proclaimed expertise, is nothing more than self proclaimed.

In other words, beyond furballing, you don't know what you are taking about.
You opinions on gameplay, beyond furballing, are about as valuable and accurate as my opinions are on internal medicine. I.E. you don't know Jack.

Lastly,
You're a tard.

And I suppose that I'm a bit of a tard too, for giving someone who is so obviously (and admittedly) uninformed, the time of day.

eskimo

Offline mrsid2

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« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2002, 11:10:29 AM »
Quote
#1. Abolish Enemy-Bar-Dar below 500 feet. Encourage sneak raids. Sneak raids would mean that players would have interesting options 99% of the time. 4 guys, with discipline, could capture an enemy base 100+ miles in enemy territory.



That's milkrunning. Not realistic by any means because there would be no warning whatsovever that the enemy is raiding an inland field. The milkrunners have already enough chances during the gangbang hours, when the defending side doesn't have enough players to protect all fields that are being attacked.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2002, 11:13:50 AM »
Creamo – I never wanted to sound condemnatory about anyone’s ways of having fun in AH. But by the same token, I think more people need to be encouraged to discover the satisfaction of belonging to a winning team which engages in the capture of territory and winning the war. Not to provide this encouragement would be akin to failing to encourage children to read challenging texts like broadsheet newspapers, and leaving them to read Janet and John books till they need bifocals.

Laz2 – those people will still be able to do their furball dweebery thing, if that’s what they want. Eskimo2’s proposals wont affect that. The proposals are not about hampering furballers, but about giving strategic missions a fighting chance, instead of having vultures waiting for their arrival.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2002, 11:19:47 AM »
Eskimo2!  
Quote
Lazshole
LOL!!!

I think lazs is a bit of a lazshole if he can't disagree with Ripsnort, without making it personal.

By the way, Lazshole, I think the word you were looking for was "Stradivarius", although that's a violin, not a piano. Kind of reminds me of the Tommy Cooper joke about the Stradivarius and the Picasso...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2002, 11:23:07 AM by beet1e »

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2002, 11:29:23 AM »
I don't think it is imprerative that strat be adjusted so that small groups of people or even individuals should have a drastic affect on things.  Sorry Eskimo, but everything you propose serves that concept almost exclusively.

It would be nice to see more coordination and concentrated effort.  Right now that is sorely lacking and you are seeing the results of it.  Instead of trying to bridge that gap... we come here and procede to alienate others to an even larger degree.  Furball vs Strat... CT vs MA... LW vs Allied... whatever.  This forumn is the foundation for establishing way too many cliques and individual groups.

The sad thing is that everyone looks to HTC for the solution.  How are they supposed to solve a problem so deeply rooted in the players?  How are they supposed to create a gaming environment that does everything for everyone without leaving anyone out?  They don't.  

They created an environment with so many possibilities that virtually everyone can find something they enjoy doing.  Unfortunately, so few people enjoy doing the same thing that any group effort required goal is going to bump into issues.  THAT is the problem.  Its not HTC's doing or responsibility to fix.

The strat options are there.  We don't want that because it requires too much coordination.  The furballing is there, but we don't want that because it sucks valuable resources from the strat game that we don't want to bother to coordinate.

I see posts about "field generals" and I can't help but laugh.  At least those are people that are willing to step forward and try something.  Maybe they aren't exactly strategic nor tactical geniuses... but at least they realize that people need to work together to get something done.

"I want an arena where I can do exactly what I want to do and be extremely successfull at it".  Yep... that's what HTC needs to give each and every one of us.

AKDejaVu

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2002, 11:43:10 AM »
beet1, I do understand, sort of.

 Encouraging AH's new player base isn't about  how they should play, but how to get them to figure the game out imo.

The learning curve and getting a jump on the whole game is more important than choosing strat/furball sides. Once they get it, they become players.

I could make a heartstring pulling comment in tune to themore people need to be encouraged to discover the satisfaction of belonging to a winning team yada yada, but what's the point? Once they figure it out, they will do what they will.

Besides, the "Laszhole" moniker which you embrace all-a-sudden is neither funny, or warrented in this case. And like me, you'll garner much less respect just bashing for the opportunity. Actually, I make a effort to have a reason too, so retract that.

Anyway, thanks for arguing with me and Kessler Cokes, the Daytona 500 is on. I actually stayed alive and awake.

Cheers.