Talibans in Cuba, Euro pressure...

[capt. apathy]

i caught a sound bite sunday night  that had me chuckling,
i didn't catch most of the details but they where discussing the question of treatment of prisoners and and the guy in cuba they where interviewing said "the conditions under which they are being held is in strict adherance to the geneva convention,    for the most part"

my opinion is the prissoners should be treated well.  IMO it's more about who we are than what they deserve.

[mrfish]

save your breath peer, the pro-israeli programming has stuck pretty well with this crowd.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Krusher
I really want to know what is wrong with the treatment they are getting now? How would the Europeans treat theses poor souls differently?
[/U.OTE]

I think the UN's,Red Cross etc  main concern is their legal status.

For example.

David Hicks is an Australian citizen taken prisoner whiltst fighting for the Taliban, and currently held in detention in Cuba. He has currently no legal status because the US govt won't class him as a POW, which because there has been no proof that he is a member of AL-Qaeda is denying his basic fundamental legal rights.
He is being denied protections under the applications of the geneva conventions BUT also because if he is not a POW, then he is an australian citizen being held by a foreign nation.
Under australian law a citizen charged with a crime overseas is intitled to legal representation either by local authorities, or Australian consular officials.
This has not happened on request of the US govt, and he has been interogated by US , and Australian intelligence officers without legal representation which he should be entitled to.
The Law Council of Australia is of the opinion the US govt is denying taliban prisoners POW status because it allows the removal of inconvient rules like the requirement of only giving name,rank etc ,release after the cease of hostilities unless accused of war crimes, and legal representation in interogations.
There is also the question of the US govt possibly trying aliens in military tribunals on foreign soil, thereby denying the accused the right of appeal to a US court, without the rights of international humanitarian law, or even US constitutional safeguards unlike John Walker Lindh.
  According to the US State Department's 2000 report on human rights in Egypt, "the use of military courts to try civilians continued to infringe on a defendant's right to a fair trial before an independent judiciary"


This is probably because it is highly unlikely that David Hicks could be found guilty of any crime under Australian law despite the active service of Australian troops in Afghanistan.

Tronsky

[-lynx-]

This is probably because it is highly unlikely that David Hicks could be found guilty of any crime under Australian law despite the active service of Australian troops in Afghanistan.

Huh? Maybe it's time Australian people look closer into what their constitution is made of? In most countries fighting with arms against one's own army is classed as treason plain and simple with quite severe punishment attached.


Funked - I think your irony got lost in translation to Canadian:D

[brainless]

_____________________________ _______________________
Great idea, drop it on a county that has already surrendered and is occupied. How many allied soldiers would that have killed?
_____________________________ _______________________

Thank you Thrwan...

Funkedup, please take a short review of the WWII´s history, might be better if you want to discuss here...

Do you really think your state never made any mistakes?!

At least we in Germany know what mistakes our grandparents have commited and we try to learn from them.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Peer


They would have guaranteed the basic human rights and not treated as shown on this photo which was in press.

By mistreating these prisoners the USA is loosing the moralic bonus here in Europe.

But to be realistic - there are many people here in Germany who consider the "war against terrorism" a ridiculous phrase.

You cant fight against (taliban or iraqui) terrorism and support (israeli) terrorism at the same time.

the photo showed them in shackles ,kneeling wearing orange jumpsuits... how horrible !!!!

[Peer]

The orange jumpsuits are not the bad thing. Hell - when US tourist visit Germany they wear clothes which are much more worse than these suits

No - if the picture shown and the reports in TV are true, we have to face inhuman treatment of prisoners by the USA.

You dont have to beat someone to torture him. You can break him much more effectively with other methods - like the one shown in the picture.

These men, kneeling there, could not see, could not hear and could not speak. They are completely isolated.

After some few days even the mentally strongest of them will break.

The same method is used in countries like Turkey with the Kurd-prisoners or in China.

When these countries do such things especially the US-human-right-organisations cry out in rage and call this barbarism.

And I agree with them.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by Peer
The orange jumpsuits are not the bad thing. Hell - when US tourist visit Germany they wear clothes which are much more worse than these suits

No - if the picture shown and the reports in TV are true, we have to face inhuman treatment of prisoners by the USA.

You dont have to beat someone to torture him. You can break him much more effectively with other methods - like the one shown in the picture.

These men, kneeling there, could not see, could not hear and could not speak. They are completely isolated.

After some few days even the mentally strongest of them will break.

The same method is used in countries like Turkey with the Kurd-prisoners or in China.

When these countries do such things especially the US-human-right-organisations cry out in rage and call this barbarism.

And I agree with them.

They were like that on the plane ride only...  The RED CROSS has said no abuse was found and the prisoners were being treated fairly.

And I agree with them.

[R4M]

Is your own damned fault you US-misguided guys.

It does take a really stupid idjiot to pick up those guys and carry them to the Caribbe...

instead leaving them to receive the Caring, loving, great attention of their "deep friends" in Afghanisthan (northern alliance and other anti-taliban grous), who, I'm sure, would take all kind of cares to satisfice their human-being needs...their post-mortem needs I mean,after they finish with their "love&care" sessions .


But YOU!!,o so criminal torturers, how do you DARE to send them to cuba, such an "horrible" place with such an "horrible" climate!...how do you DARE to FEED Them correctly!!!...and what about that of cleaning them and giving them hygiene articles!!!???...one should be really a torturer to do all that and give them all those things!!!!!!!!!
[/sarcastic mode off ]

What is me, you could stick a spike, with the nickname "osama" on it, into their sorry prettythanges, as I won't mind.

But I think you should send them back into Afghanistan so their caring brothers of the northern alliance could give them a "fair treatment" . I'm sure they would be willing to go thru that experience

P.S. I'm quite sure that quite some people in civiliced countries like mine, yours or anyone else's would like to have the chance to live under those conditions...as they live in the streets and have no food to put into their mouth.

those bastards are well feed, well treated, and sleeping in a more or less confortable site. yah, you are torturers

P.S.2: don't be surprised about this reaction in europe. To be anti-US seems to be the fashion today. Things of being jeallous,I think.

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Eagler
bring ALL of the scum to Cuba, then have a prison "riot" which, very sorry to report, kills ALL of them. End of story and my tax dollars supporting their worthless murdering asses.

Eagler, if that would happen what would be the difference between you/US Goverment and them? Except the 5-year old's comment: "They started it"...and even that is arguable...

[R4M]

Originally posted by Wmaker
"They started it"...and even that is arguable...

Huhm? really?

enlighten me, for I can't recall how many full of passangers 767s did the US slam against Taliban buildings full of normal people before 11 september

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Wmaker


Eagler, if that would happen what would be the difference between you/US Goverment and them? Except the 5-year old's comment: "They started it"...and even that is arguable...

 The main diference would be that we would be alive and they would be dead.

 You know you might want to consider how benificial it is right now to be anti-american.  People here are pissed at that attitude after 60 years of helping the world.  It would be real easy for us to stop and take care of ourselves.  Where would the world be then?

 Most people I know here agreed and still do agree 1000% with President Bush when he said "you're either with us or with the terrorist"  Get it?  Really you get it?  

 LOL the absurdity of accusing the USA with human rights violations with these terrorist.  What a strange wacky world we live in.....

[GRUNHERZ]

So peer it seems after all this time that some in Germany still have a lil "something" for their Jewish friends......

[Tumor]

Originally posted by brainless

Btw: I wonder what the second nuclear bomb in WWII has been good for, or if it really has been that important to drop it.

I look at it like this.  If you pick a fight with the big guy on the block with the intention of making yourself the big guy on the the block, don't be suprised if you get a kick in the face after getting your butt waxed.

Had a certain event NOT happened on Dec 7th 1941, I really wonder if any nukes would have been used at all.

[Saintaw]

Well, not only tabloids , found it in "Le Monde " this morning as well, stating that indeed this was a picture taken on the 1st day...

Man, if we aren't even able to agree on matters/statements we build for ourselves(NATO)... what's it going to be when we get to more pointy matters?