P38 Flip-Flop

[Apar]

Raubvogel,

I think you need to film it. What you also could do is ask the guy that performed this maneuver on you to do it a couple of times in the DA and film it. I would love to see the film on it.

I have to say that I have seen it from a P38 once on me in the CT (a while ago). I was very surprised that he got his nose on me that quick, I was in a 109G6 and just couldn't react on it in time. The way I think the move is performed I described above, but trying it myself doesn't give me instant flip over (although you can reverse the P38 very fast that way!), it still takes time, and I'm sure I can do it at least as fast in a 109g2 (without using flaps). I suspect that some lag was invloved that made it look like a instant flip-over.

I also found that allot of planes turn extremely fast at the point where they tend to stall out. If you can control the stall, you can stall turn it very fast. But you have also lost allot of E in the process and there should be a clear E-difference between you and the opponent that didn't stall turn. You can use that E-difference in your advantage.

[GeeWally]

I'm no expert at all but one thing that he might be doing is a snap roll (if that's the right word).

Try this in a P38.  Go about 250 mph, then pull back all the way on the stick and push the rudder all the way right or left.  The plane will roll REAL fast.  It rolls so fast its hard to stop it from going all the way around.  As soon as the roll starts, you have to push the stick forward again to stop the roll when you are upside down.  Once you are upside down you can pull back on the stick again to split-s.

If watch a film of it, you see the nose going up, then the plane suddenly rolls upside down.  A lot faster than it rolls if you just push the stick over to the side.

You can do this at almost any angle, but you have to have some speed to do it.  I would say at least 200mph.

[Vermillion]

I've seen it done before too, but it wasn't a 38 if I remember correctly.  If I'm thinking right, the plane I saw do it was a F4U believe it or not. Wish I knew how it was done, or how to watch for it.

I was fighting a guy about a week ago, who had figured out how to intentionally stall a Niki so that as you began to fire at him he would "flutter" down like a leaf out of your line of fire, and then before you could zoom past him, he would recover and be crawling up your ass.  Watched him do it to a wingman from a distance (he pinged my wingie but had to brake off for my attack), and he did it too me twice.  Thank goodness I had a great head of steam up each time, or he would have got me.

[Raubvogel]

It's sounding like this is something I'm just going to have to live with. Not sure what the problem is...flight model?...net code?...all I know is physics won't allow an aircraft to do what I've seen.

[Lephturn]

Until we have some film, preferrably from both sides, you can't really tell what is going on.  At this point, I'd say the issue is likely something to do with the smoothing code and high net lag, but I'm guessing.

Film it and we'll know more.