Author Topic: Flying manners  (Read 2784 times)

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2002, 02:07:01 AM »
AKIron, this is not my first tour in AH, u know?

So, Yak9U is not a super plane cause it has not hispanos, right?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2002, 02:22:18 AM »
Make no mistake (I love this sentence ;)) the D9 is a superb plane too !

Offline AKEagle+

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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2002, 02:41:43 AM »
Quote
So, Yak9U is not a super plane cause it has not hispanos, right?


MANDOBLE:

I would agree tha the Yak9U is a super plane. :)

But it is not a super gun platform.  Just because a plane can outfly a piece of Luftwaffe iron, does not make it a dweeb plane.  Unless your definition of "Dweeb Plane" is in fact any non LW that can outfly most LW iron.

My definition of a "dweeb plane." ??  A mythical, non-existent plane in a flight sim that is easy to fly and has good firepower, thus making it the preferred ride of newcomer’s.  Because a newcomer can fly these planes, they are deemed as unworthy by the elitists and branded with a disparaging nickname.  The fact that there actually were some WWII planes that were deadly and easier to fly than many of the high speed e fighters of the LW should not be taken into consideration when branding a plane "Dweeb"

But then what do I know?  I just spent an evening getting beat like a harp seal pup on the ice.  My first two take off’s I was vulched.  The whole night I was beaten, skinned alive and left to die! LOL!.   Not sure why it is, but I seem to lose about 80 IQ points every time I see a furball or a BBS!  LOL! :D

My $.02 anyways :)

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Offline straffo

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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2002, 03:09:24 AM »
err....

It's a well known fact that the "D" in the 190D9 name stand for Dweeben HunStang...

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2002, 04:24:36 AM »
This is not a question of LW or not LW.
D9, P51 and P47 are in the same leage. Fast planes but move them, specially 47 and D9 and your energy is lost. Then you have also G10, fast and with good acceleration,  but better be slow if you want to move it. Add P38, 205 and even F4U to the pool. The fact is that there are four minimal-E-loose-whatever-they-do planes: Yak, spit(V and IX are the same thing), n1kj and La7. The last one looses E, but recovers it inmediately due its monstruos Hp/W power. The other three are simply aerodinamic miracles. And of these, Yak has an enormous advatage over the rest: No WEP.
D9 performance depends exclusively in the 10 mins WEP, no WEP in D9 transforms it in a small C47. The Yak is 100% forgiving plane even in engine management (I wonder whether La7 has really a WEP time limit).

I'm not trying to convince you that Yak is the dweebiest one, that is just my opinnion and it will not change. If some of you think that G10, D9, P51, etc are dweeb rides, ok, they'll be for u.

In any case, this is not a Yak thread. If you want to talk about Yak ubberness, go to the trainning forum where you will find a nice topic: Spit vs Yak.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45365
« Last Edit: February 20, 2002, 04:33:15 AM by MANDOBLE »

Offline Gremlin

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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2002, 04:39:49 AM »
My definition of a dweeb plane;  Any plane I don't know how to deal with.  :D Seems I'm not the only one. :( I used to do a lot of moaning about Uber planes, not anymore,  if a guy can get xteen kills in a 'nikie' (BTW that's Fariz's new name for our beloved N1K)  then fair play to him. My solution, if ya don't like 'em go fly 'em.  Then at least you'll be in a better position to deal with them when u return to a 'real mans plane'

Mandobles real complaint?  Allied fighters are better than LW iron.  Thats it pure and simple.  Just a fact of life you gotta live with. What does he wan't done, have every plane he considers uber perked?  Mandoble is one of the best LW fighters about but I think hes forgetting that not every1 is as skilled as he is.  If AH went down the elitist road don't think many newbies would hang around long enough to reach Mandobles level.
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« Last Edit: February 20, 2002, 04:42:11 AM by Gremlin »

Offline straffo

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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2002, 04:47:10 AM »
1st I don't think that any of the the legendary dweeb plane exist ...

But there is some dweeb pilots ...
Using NetAces chart :


I don't look after 10 K as it's stratosphere for me :D
(I'm sick when to hight :p)

Speed Winner D9 with wep (if you run out of wep ... it's you problem not mine)

Acceleration Winner D9

Dive Acceleration equal

0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9

Speed Retention Winner D9

Sustained Rate of Climb Winner D9 (same remark as for speed)

Time to Altitude Winner D9 err ...no :D this is the Yak this time

"Max" Climb equal

Stall Speed yak9u ... but who care of stall speed excepat at landing ?

Roll Rates not tested ,I guess that the D9 is the winner by a large margin.


Now can you still pretend that the Yak9u is dweebest than the D9 ?

Offline Apar

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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2002, 05:47:54 AM »
Straffo, it doesn't say anything about sustained turn rates or E-retention. Yak9U will win does by far. Meaning you have to energy fight the yak in a dora or die. :)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2002, 06:03:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apar
Straffo, it doesn't say anything about sustained turn rates or E-retention. Yak9U will win does by far. Meaning you have to energy fight the yak in a dora or die. :)


cough cough ...

0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9

Speed Retention Winner D9

I'm mistaken or what ?

Offline MadBirdCZ

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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2002, 06:07:25 AM »
I thought that LW metal is limited almost exclusively to E fighting... :confused:
Of course not talking about 109F and 109E that are able of quite decent turnfighting...

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2002, 06:15:24 AM »
Absolutely straffo :D

I will not enter to discusse these tests. In any case, remember that these comparation is valid only for 10 mins, then D9 wep is off and Yak would be the uber one all the time.

Ok, Now I will forget the topic about killing dweeb pilots and will get into a more serious topic: performance charts and tests.

You cant go, see a performance chart and say, hey, this plane is uber or this plane is sht, cause we dont fly airliners in this sim, we fly fighters that need to maneouver to get the kills. Top speed, substained climb, roll rate, etc are all measures taken in a "laboratory" environment. In these tests you will not find resulting speed after one or two 4g 360 degree turns at 5000 feet, for example. In fact you will not see the resulting speed loose/gain after changing anything in the control surfaces. And that is what counts for air combat.

I'm in a D9 pursuing a yak in a loop, I start the loop faster than him but he outruns me at the end of the loopv as well as outturns me into the loop by a wide margin, now where is the top speed advantage of the Dora??

Now we are in a vertical climbing zoom, I'm able to outzoom marginaly the Yak, but while I need 4 secs to invert the course at the top, he needs only 2. Where is the substained climb advantage of the Dora??

In my experience, D9 is better than Yak just if both keep the speed above 450, where no one will be able to score a single hit at the other.

About "(if you run out of wep ... it's you problem not mine)", this is my problem just because D9 has that limitation while Yak9U hasnt it. Now go and compare D9 without wep with Yak9U. This is like "(if your plane is slower than mine ... it's you problem not mine cause I have a faster plane)"


About:
0 Throttle Deceleration Winner D9
Speed Retention Winner D9

Read the test procedure and you will notice that this has little or nothing to do with E-Retention in combat. I insist, we dont drive airliners. These tests are done in a no-control-input environment. That is, you just dont move the plane.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2002, 06:19:12 AM by MANDOBLE »

Offline DarkglamJG52

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« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2002, 06:32:19 AM »
>Mandobles real complaint?Allied fighters are better than LW >iron. Thats it pure and simple. Just a fact of life you gotta live >with. What does he wan't done, have every plane he considers >uber perked? Mandoble is one of the best LW fighters about but >I think hes forgetting that not every1 is as skilled as he is. If AH >went down the elitist road don't think many newbies would >hang around long enough to reach Mandobles level

 :D :) :) :) :) :) :)  :D  

 sure?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2002, 06:44:28 AM »
cough cough cough Atttttttttchaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
(weather is baaaad in Normadie today ...)

Fek ... I do agree ... :)

Last night I've spent 15 minutes trying to engage yer nasty Ta152 ;)
You're better at E keeping than me and in a D9 you've 9:59 minutes to kill my ineptitude :D or roll away ...


Concerning the test I'm not good enought to decide if it's valid or not but IMO it's quite balanced between a D9 and a Yak none of those  planes as a signifiant edge over the other.

I will try use the D9 more to have an opinion(*) of it compared to my lovely Yak.

(*) swag at work :)

IMO the ultimate advantage the Yak as versus the D9 is the following : she's sexiest :)  than that ugly  FW ;)
:D

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2002, 06:50:38 AM »
Gremlin, do you remember the excelent fights D9 vs P51? Did you found any uberness in my D9? I, for sure, didnt found any uberness in your 51. I insist, this is not a question of LW iron against allied iron. Some planes do 50% of the work, while some others need the pilot to do 90% of it. There are always two attitude extremes:
- I want to fly planes that earn my kills.
- I want to earn my kills with little support of the plane.

For me, a gorgiving plane is a dweeb ride, no matter the top speed, climbing, diving or whatever. That doesnt mean that inside the dweeb ride is a dweeb pilot.

Straffo, were you fighting my Ta yesterday???

Take care of that "cough" ;)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2002, 06:55:02 AM by MANDOBLE »

Offline MadBirdCZ

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« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2002, 07:00:26 AM »
Also Yak has quite bid disadvantage when it comes to damage... Because of its belly mounted radiator even the smallest hit from any angle kills the radiator first (1 ping) and how long does Yak fly without radiator? 10 seconds? And almost the same with oil :(  I have seen LW scrap metal flying for unlimited periods of time with this kind of damage... So YES Yak if flown properly is indeed a monster that eats LW all the time and has no problems with that but at the other hand its pretty fragile and its ammo load gives me about 4 kills per 1 ammo load (fighters) when I attack buffs in it my best is 2 B17s and I brought 5 canon rounds back to base with no holes in my plane... :D  (don't ask me how I did that, find out yourself - fly YAK!) :D