CENSURE certain squad name ?

[nonoht]

i wonder that seeing the squad call : WAFFEN SS.
In france Waffen SS were butchers  (massacre of ORADOUR/GLANE  and TULLE  on june 1944)

i don't want to see these name relive in AH
These name bring Hate and facism with them...

So HTC  it is possible to censure no "political correct" name in AH ?

[Kieren]

While I think there are limits to acceptable squad names, Waffen SS is historic at the very least.

Think of it this way- the Vikings certainly did their share of raping and pillaging, but we think nothing of naming our sports teams after them.  

[MarkVZ]

  Please, PLEASE don't bring this PC attitude to Aces High.  If the name Waffen SS gets banned, who knows whats next?  You cant just ban things because a certain person or handful of people find it offensive.  Do you ban LW planes because they fought for the wrong cause?  Do you remove the B17 because it lead to the inadvertant deaths of innocent people caught in it's bombing raids?  Do you remove the gun from the soldier's hands because it sends the wrong image to youth that may be playing?  Do you ban the act of shooting all-together because it is violent?  War is hell.  People got hurt, people got killed.  That's war.  Waffen SS was real, and there's nothing you can do to change that.  As long as you play a sim that simulates killing another human being through whatever method, you can not complain about a HISTORICAL name in that game.

One more thing.  Please don't turn this into a Swastica thread.  I have talked to HiTech on this issue, and Swasticas will never be seen in Aces High, case closed.  Don't argue about the Swastica, because it wont change anything.


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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[Renfield]

And they are probably all dead. It is history now - tragic and sad - but history.

Personally I don't like the squad names like "BEAT DOWN POSSE", etc. It brings a punk aspect to the sim that is unrealistic.

For now, about the only way to censor would be to provide a list of "acceptable" squad names and let groups pick. But who then decides what is acceptable? Remember, the Allies ran all sorts of firebomb raids on Berlin and Tokyo which resulted in the deaths of many innocent people. What about the squads that did that? Would those from Germany or Japan not be legitimate to ask to censor those squad names too?

Real war is hell. Real war kills people in all sorts of terrible, horrible, and painful ways. We are playing wargames on our computer and that will by necessity carry some amount of baggage of the real atrocities of war. People just need to accept that some will take offensive (to some or many) squad names or handles.

It is the same situation as putting swastikas on the German aircraft. It is historically accurate. Anyone who wants to play WWII simulations but wants to decide what is OK and not based on their own feelings in the matter is being a little hippocritical IMHO.

Some day the programs will evolve to allow you to censure whatever you wish on your own - similar to WB's "Carlin" filter. Until then people need to just deal with it.

[fats]

Kieren,

There was an SS unit called Vikings. Maybe the sports team is named after them. Coincidence or conspiracy?!


//fats
p.s. for the PC-anal people out there - I couldn't care less if it the sports team was named after my left buttock. Hey wait it would actually be kinda cool...

[Revvin]

Yeah but "Fats left buttock" doesn't have the same ring to it  

I saw Waffen SS a few times on and off today and to be honest it did make me think about it but like everyone here's said its history, something we can learn from.

[funked]

Well if these guys are saying "Heil Hitler" or racial slurs then I can see a problem.  But if they are just seeking to portray some of the Reich's most effective armored units, I don't have a problem with it.

Waffen SS were not the only combat units to kill civilians.  The Japanese and Soviet Armies were guilty of this.  And what about RAF bomber command and the USAAF's strategic bombing groups?  Whether it's machine gunning them into a ditch or bombing them from 25,000 feet, it's still an atrocity.  If you want to ban the Waffen SS name, then you should also ban the RAF Bomber Command units, 8th AF units, IJAAF units, etc.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-02-2000).]

[RAM]

Waffen SS...wasnt that the militar branch of the SS?...
I mean the elite German division were SS divisions just as the Russian "guards" divisions.

Maybe you are confusing Waffen SS (pure militar force) with ALLGEMEINE SS (the force used to keep internal order and to guard the concentration fields.

I may be wrong but I think that Waffen SS was only a combat force.

[Nash]

That would be Zemke's 'squad'. He was calling himself the 56th fighter group, but I think Daff mighta had some words with him about that... not sure. At any rate, he's changed the name to this SS thing. I think it's just him... mebbe someone else. We prolly aint gonna see it in another, oh, week and a half.

[-ammo-]

I read an account where in the midst of the Battle for Rabaul, American Bomber Crews were ordered to straffe and kill all the survivors from their sunken ships (aftyer the Americans sunk the Japanese transports) the order was given becuase it was felt that the Japanese were close enough to the coast to make it there and eventually fight again. So that is what the USN and USAAC did, low level straffing runs on life boats full of Japanese Soldiers using everything from B25's to fighters. It was a massacre.

Was it neccesary? The Allied commanders thought so. Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20. Hmmm, we should BAN all US AC, ya think?

 

[Udie]

 If you have ethical problems with one part of ww2 recreation, how can you not have an ethical problem with the whole thing?  The perfect a2a kill is one where you murder an unsuspecting pilot from behind. I recreat that as much as possible  

 As long as their not spewing out racial or nazi crap it should be ok I think.  

Udie

[-towd_]

funny how points of view differ . to me the perfect kill is where you meet him equal and beat him down.

and understanding the feelings of the people who were ruthlessly slaughtered by thos sorry sons of squeakes is both ss versions ( no shame on their decendents it was a one time gig) is hopefully eased by the fact that our grandadys hunted the great majority of the murderers down and killed um with greater kindness than they deserved.ss were not taken prisoner you know. best they got was a bullet in the head . or retirement in argentina (.00001%)

we killed um once you want to play um we will replay histry for ya hehe ...

[Cabby]

I guess that's what ya get when ya got Panzers in your game.  They could choose to emulate a more traditional German armored division rather than the SS.  Too bad.

And anyone who equates Nazi atrocities to the military acts of the Allies(or vice versa) in WWII is a complete and utter moron.

Cabby

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=44th FS "VAMPIRES"=
"The Jungle Air Force"
Welcome To The Jungle!!!"

[crabofix]

A very difficult question gents.

Waffen ss was the very top of the pops of the German military system.
Then again their where also knowns as men guilty to warcrimes. Then again, Im certain they ´wherent the only ones guilty of that.
Even allied groups commited crimes but where´nt convicted.

Waffen ss is a military group not the "butchers" in the concentrationcamps. These gents where not in "waffen" ss.
(waffen means weapon, right?)

I can see that people react on the word "ss", but then they have to read a little more history.

My vote to let the name "waffen ss" be valid, because it was an elite military unit.
(or more a elite branch with their own arment, uniforms, material, etc, etc.)

Crabofix

[funked]

   

complete and utter moron

I would reserve this term for those who equate the murder of civilians by aerial bombing with "military acts".


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-02-2000).]