the BF110G2

[Staga]

Something I did really fast so thats why disclaimer...

[Staga]

Hortlund have you ever heard about Folland Gnats, DeHavilland Vampires or SAAB Drakens?
Now shut up or we give Åland to sweden. Heck you can have Borgå too if you like.

[Urchin]

I know the 110C was fairly manueverable.  I, like Ammo, would have assumed the 110G was a big fat pig with all those guns and such.  I honestly don't know though.  The wingloading looks comparable to the Mosquito, which turns pretty well, and who's FM everyone seems happy with.  

I haven't played 1.09 online yet, exactly what can the 110G turn with that it shouldn't be turning with?  I'd have assumed it would at least have a shot turning with P51s, P47s, 109G6 and G10, 190s, La7s, and anything I forgot that turns about like any of the above.  Anything more turny than that and the 110G would have to BnZ, at least in my uninformed opinion.

[Staga]

uups, messed with that pic...

[illo]

Originally posted by Widewing


Yeah, the 110G is far too uber. Indeed, the flight model found in EAW is much closer to reality than it is here. I'll see if its modeled in IL-2 and do a comparison. I'm sure it will be adjusted in the future.

My regards,

Widewing

What do you know about reality? Do you have some data to back up this "reality" statement or are you just whining?

sorry i need to do this
I watched too much of those luftwhiner comments...and hell those people usually have some data to start discussion with.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Widewing

Indeed, the flight model found in EAW is much closer to reality than it is here.

I was thinking the exact same thing as illo.

Widewing, exactly how many hours have you spent flying the 110 "in reality"?

[HFMudd]

Too uber huh?  I know I'm just a newbie but... while it seems to me that it turned well it wasn't all that uber.  My +/- list prior to giving up due to CTD's:

+ Good initial turn
- Slow roll rate
- Average speed
- Controls get sluggish above 400
+ Guns, guns and more guns!
+ Lottsa ammo

Doesn't seem that uber to me.

[Tac]

Im impressed by the 110G2.

It feels a lot like the jug-11 before it was fixed... somehow I think something is out of whack with the 110G2. But I know little about the 110, so I really cant say.

From what i've seen:

-Engines are monstrous. WEP the thing on a slight dive, it will pick up speed like an La7/Mossie. E-retention is great.

Took a 38 up and fought with a co-alt, almost Co-E 110G2 (I was gaining on it just a little)... the 110 would simply nose down a bit and leave me in the dust.. my 38 had to do a hard dive to just catch up. Was no surprise there, the 110 can go to 400mph with barely diving 2-4k in a shallow dive.. the 38 needs like 8k to do the same, and the 110 retains those 400mph for a looong time.

The 110 ended up taking d800 .50 cal shots from me till somethign broke loose (and I had like 100 rnds left of ammo on the 50 cals!).

Simply amazing.

[Kratzer]

I flew my only sortie last night in the 110G2, and it didn't seem uber in the least.  I got in a fight with a 110C4, and I was faster, but he could outturn me, and neither of us could turn all that well.  He got one of my engines smoking in the head on, but then he decided to straighten out and shoot at one of my teammates, and I lit him up with some 30mm love.  He fell apart like Mariah Carey.

I really don't see the 110 surviving many dogfights against well flown pure-fighters.  It'll be a kick-ass buff killer though!

[bigUC]

Originally posted by Kratzer
He fell apart like Mariah Carey.  
 

LOL!!

[Karnak]

I don't have any info specific to the 110G-2, by my number on the 110G-4 gives it an initial climb rate of 2,170ft per min.

Staga,

That chart has neither the 110G-2, nor the Mosquito VI.  It does give a rough idea though.

I am, frankly, not surprised by the manuverability of the 110.  Its climb rate might be a bit high, but it might be spot on too.  I don't know.

What would cause the 110G-4 to be that much heavier?  I don't know the answer to that.  LW experts?

[Raubvogel]

G-4 had the Schrage Muzik installation. So add the weight of 2x20mm Mg151/20 and ammo.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Staga
hmm Let's see:
Earlier when some players wanted to know if D-11 was modelled correctly were you one of those who did use word "Luftwhiner" ?

-If you were then "STFU you stupid allied swine"
-If not "Where are the numbers?"

Thats how it works in AH....
Couple guys are talking if plane needs some corrections and some chowderhead rolls in and starts to throw more or less hidden insults.

If you don't have anything to say why don't you guys just stay away from topics like this?

BTW, How old are you Junior? And how's that glass house or yours?


-Sikboy

[Widewing]

Originally posted by illo


What do you know about reality? Do you have some data to back up this "reality" statement or are you just whining?

sorry i need to do this
I watched too much of those luftwhiner comments...and hell those people usually have some data to start discussion with.

Last night I turned with a Hurricane, shooting it out of its turn. I also witnessed a 110G out-turn a Mustang and kill it. How accurate is that?

I found torque to be non-existant. Initial roll rate in my estimation, is much too fast. I have read where one Luftwaffe pilot stated that he preferred the Ju 88, due to its better rate of turn.

I'm at the office right now, and I don't have my library at hand. However, I will address this further this evening.

Until then, let's look at what some actual combat pilots thought of the 110.

"Meat on the table" Robert Johnson
"Hopelessly out-classed" Jim Goodson
"Easy kills, virtually defenseless" Bud Mahurin

One needs only look at the success of the Bf 110 in combat in the ETO (circa 1943 and beyond) to understand that these aircraft were slaughtered by the day fighters, wherever they were encountered.

However, that does not appear to be the case in Aces High. I took a 110G-2 up last night and got two kills and two assists within minutes, turnfighting with planes, with which a real 110 had no chance whatsoever of surviving any real-world encounter.

Some wise bellybutton wanted to know how much time I had in real 110s. Obviously, none. However, I have over 2,300 hours in military aircraft (S-2F, C-1A, T-28, TA-4J to name a few), which I believe gives me some insight into the issue.

I defy anyone to present some evidence that the Bf 110 could dogfight anywhere near as well as the current AH modeled example does. When faced with single-engine day fighters, 110s were utterly annilated. As it stands now, the 110G has a better record than the 190A-8, 190F-8, F6F and P-38. All of these aircraft should (in the real world) easily defeat the 110G, with anyone with anyone less than the Lord Jesus at the Messerschmitt's controls. Yet, in the same arena, the 110 seems to on its way to generating a better combat record than the above. The logical conclusion must be that the 110 is over-modeled. Indeed, having flown other sim's 110s, AH's version is far more capable. If there were no other reason than that, it would be worth looking at.

My regards,

Widewing

[Raubvogel]

Originally posted by Sikboy



If you don't have anything to say why don't you guys just stay away from topics like this?


-Sikboy

Pot, this is kettle, you're black, over.

Karnak, the intitial climb rate I have for the G4 is 2,300 fpm. Time to 18,000 ft was 8 minutes.