the BF110G2

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
Pot, this is kettle, you're black, over. :rolleyes

Karnak, the intitial climb rate I have for the G4 is 2,300 fpm. Time to 18,000 ft was 8 minutes.

lol Raub, that was the whole point. Good of you to notice

-Sikboy

[Raubvogel]

Widewing, I think what everyone is getting at is this:

Everytime someone posts something about an Allied plane possibly performing a bit too well they get labled as a "Luftwhiner" and are told to produce numbers and do testing to prove it. The precedent was set a long time ago. These guys are just asking the same in this instance. Produce some numbers, do some testing. Anedoctal evidence and testimonials mean squat.

Who's to say that other sims' 110s were correct? We really don't know. I haven't done any testing, but the 110 performs about as well as I'd expect it too. It's not "uber" by any means. I'm not sure why people are surprised that it turns well. The P38 turns well, the Mossie turns well....why wouldn't the 110?

[Pyro]

Everybody drop their nationalistic biases towards and against planes and just look at a plane as that, a plane.  The plane could be modeled very well, the plane could modeled very poorly.  But the direction some elements in this thread are going gets in the way of any meaningful discussion to take place.  So let's stop with the flag waving and attacking and try to utizilize scientfic method.

In order to that, you also have to put reputations in perspective.  This plane certainly carries a reputation in that it was pretty easy meat for escort fighters.  But that doesn't mean it was a complete dog.  At 26,000 feet, how well does it do against a P-51?  Eric Brown had generally positive comments about the flying characteristics of the plane.  Is that contradictory to its reputation?  I don't think so.

Regardless, arguing about its reputation is not of much use.  If there is something wrong let's define what is and quantify it.  If there is one thing I would love to see for this plane, it is a detailed weight schedule if anybody has one.  I could have a major problem there, or perhaps other people do.

[pimpjoe]

you can do lots of things with Energy Widewing. not trying to be a smartass or anything...but if something like a pony gets low and slow...who's to say a zeke cant dive in on it and catch it before it gets back up to speed?

[J_A_B]

Widewing--

Not saying the 110 is right or wrong in AH, but condsider that quite a large number of number of LW pilots considered the P-38 to be an easy kill that was almost helpless in A2A combat.  Galland made a point of comparing the P-38 to (surprise surprise) the Me-110.   Do their statements mean the AH P-38 is over-modeled?   I could take that a step further and look at the lack of success of the P-38 with the 8th Airforce to "prove" that the P-38 sucked.

But we both know that the P-38 didn't suck.  We both know that there were other factors at work that hampered the P-38 in the 8th airforce.

I have found pilot accounts to be entertaining but virtually useless to back up claims regarding aircraft modeling in a game, because you can find pilot claims to back up almost any point you might wish to make.  I can use pilot accounts to "prove" that the P-47D could out-turn the FW-190A-8; I can also use pilot accounts to "prove" the exact opposite.

I fly the P-51D a lot;   I fully expect the 110 to out-turn me down low.  I wouldn't even bother trying to turn with one under 20K or so.  The Mustang driver who did deserved to get shot down.  Right now the 110 is brand new in AH and nearly everybody expects it to be a total pig--which means they're most likely taking risks when fighting 110's that they wouldn't take against other fighters.  The 110's "uberness" may well be a result of its opponents' overconfidence,  or the it might well indeed have some quirk in its flight model.  

What is its time to altitude?  Speed at various altitudes?  Turn radius and speed?  Roll times to 45/90/180/360 degrees?  These are the sort of nunbers you need to determine what's up with the 110.

J_A_B

[flakbait]

Over here: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bf110.html
I found the following info...


Bf-110 C4
Empty: 9,920lbs
Loaded: 15,430lbs
Wing area: 413 sq/ft
Wing loading at loaded weight: 37lbs/sq-ft
Power loading at loaded weight: 6.42 lbs/hp

It lists the same weights for the G series, which is obviously off. Over at this site here they give the following info for the C4 and G2. Ignore the metric conversions on-site, none of them are correct.

110-g2
Wing area: 413 sq/ft
Empty Weight: 12,566lbs
Loaded weight: 16,093lbs
Wing loading at loaded weight: 38.9lbs/sq-ft
Power loading at loaded weight: 7.1lbs/hp

110-c4
Wing area: 413 sq/ft
Empty weight:11,463lbs
Loaded weight:14,881lbs
Wing loading at loaded weight: 36.03lbs/sq-ft
Power loading at loaded weight: 6.33lbs/hp

Conversions used:
2.2046 lbs per kg
0.09290304 sq-m per sq-ft

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think my maker wants to hear from me right now. I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

[Sancho]

BTW, HTC updated the performance pages to include new aircraft:

110g2
110c4

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by J_A_B
Not saying the 110 is right or wrong in AH, but condsider that quite a large number of number of LW pilots considered the P-38 to be an easy kill that was almost helpless in A2A combat.  Galland made a point of comparing the P-38 to (surprise surprise) the Me-110.   Do their statements mean the AH P-38 is over-modeled?   I could take that a step further and look at the lack of success of the P-38 with the 8th Airforce to "prove" that the P-38 sucked.

Heh heh.  Yes, you could.  Yes, you could indeed.

But we both know that the P-38 didn't suck.  We both know that there were other factors at work that hampered the P-38 in the 8th airforce.

But....do the rest of us know that, too?

Oldman

[palef]

Originally posted by pimpjoe
you can do lots of things with Energy Widewing. not trying to be a smartass or anything...but if something like a pony gets low and slow...who's to say a zeke cant dive in on it and catch it before it gets back up to speed?

Pimpjoe - which 110 were you flying last night? You did a very good job of flying to the strengths of the 110. I was in a Spit I btw, hence the almost constant hail of little bitty .303 rounds

That was one of the coolest fights I have had in AH

Palef

[pimpjoe]

palef! thanx

i was in the g2 last night...although i wont be in it for a while due to the CTD's being caused by it.  its my new favorite ride. as long as you dont get that thing too slow its a beast. and whatever you do...DO NOT go head on with it:D

[Tracer-15]

110g2 kicks butt where others cant.......FOUR A/A rockets....that should be enough to frighten any buff flyer to death....let alone FOUR 20mm's and TWO 30mm's/......this is one of the heaviest armed fighters

[Wilbus]

Don't seem wrong to me actually, the 110 C4 (to start with) turned about as good, some say even a bit BETTER then the 109 E4. Roll rate was of course slow.

The G2, which has got only slightly more wingloading and thus it should turns only slightly worse, it had a great initial turn but after a while it starts to turn worse.

Tac, reminds me of P38

P38's accelerate like the devil were after them, now, the 110 g2 seems to accelerate as if 2 devils were after it
It can take a bunch of dammage too, like the P38.

[J_A_B]

Oldman, you're being a bad boy    You KNOW what'll happen if Savage sees that  

J_A_B

[Karnak]

I always understood that the 110 had a reputation for being fragile.

[DarkglamJG52]

Somebody looks with which engine HTC simulate G2? Answer(big surprise, for german planes): with the best possible for G2, like Tiffi, bye example.  However other planes are modeling not with their best  numbers, like Fw 190 D,  G6 or Ta 152.  

Allied fans don't be talibans(same for LW fans), the germans had airplanes so good like USA planes. And quite better that the other countrys(UK,URRS, Japan...).

JAB, I agree you.

...and 410 were much better than the 110.