Author Topic: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF  (Read 1318 times)

Offline Staga

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Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« on: March 29, 2002, 06:18:04 AM »







Edit: too much Famous Grouse Vintage...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2002, 06:20:34 AM by Staga »

Offline HoHun

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Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2002, 08:39:07 AM »
Hi Staga,

"Junkersflugzeuge 1933 - 1945" by Bukowski/Griehl - an illustrated reprint of the Baade report prepared for the Soviets after WW2 - confirms that the 20 mm cannon was a regular armement option of the Ju 88.

"Mappe 01-0530" p. 6:

"Ju 88A-4 - Sturzbomber

Baujahr 1940-44.

Schußwaffe

[...]

5 Zusatzbewaffnung in der Kanzel

Lafette Junkers   Firma Junkers
Waffe MG FFM   Firma Ikaria
Munition 120 Schuß in 2 Trommeln á 60 Schuß"

('Ju 88A-4 dive bomber, production 1940-44, barrel armement: 5 additional armament in the cockpit

mounting Junkers, manufacturer Junkers
weapon MG FFM manufacturer Ikaria
ammunition 120 rounds in 2 drum @ 60 rounds each')

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline JoppeX

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 11:33:09 AM »
It would be time to add MG FFM 20 mm gun to Junkers 88 with HE (minebullets) and solid bullets. December 2008 at Roukalahti, Finland, Finnish army dig up fallen Ju-88 from bottom of lake Saimaa. It had MG FFM 20 mm gun at nose. This gun was on display at Carelicum museum in Joensuu North-Carelia.

Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 12:18:09 PM »
why'd you bump a 7 year old thread?
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Offline Devonai

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 12:32:32 PM »
Probably because the forum regulars would ridicule him for not using the search function.  Better to necropost than doublepost, IMO.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2009, 04:13:34 PM »
The MG/FF took the place of the bombsight, meaning the level bomber type of the Ju88 we have modeled would no longer be a level bomber. If it wasn't a level bomber it probably had no internal bomb bays (dive bombing most likely used the external mounts), and would have no formations. Overall that's another type of plane altogether. If you're going to get another type of Ju88 I'd rather have the C-6 (3x MG/FF in the nose) or the G-6 (4x MG151/20, much much faster), but I don't think we'll see either anytime soon, as they were night fighters.

Offline Motherland

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 08:25:31 PM »
The MG/FF took the place of the bombsight, meaning the level bomber type of the Ju88 we have modeled would no longer be a level bomber. If it wasn't a level bomber it probably had no internal bomb bays (dive bombing most likely used the external mounts), and would have no formations. Overall that's another type of plane altogether.
Yeah, I mean, it's not like we have another aircraft in game modeled like that or anything.


I'd love to see this option for the Ju88 when it gets remodeled!

Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 11:32:28 PM »
Probably because the forum regulars would ridicule him for not using the search function.  Better to necropost than doublepost, IMO.

Yea, but they flame him for bumping the thread. I just asked, I'm out. *leaves*
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Offline Charge

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 04:39:09 AM »
"Overall that's another type of plane altogether."

No it's not. As you said the cannon replaces only the level bombing sight but that is all. It would still be A4. All deliveries of A4s to Finland contained MG-FF and theres official documentation about that.

It would simply be a hangar option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eQzaiVWh6w

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Offline Krusty

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 01:44:07 PM »
There's currently no hangar option to remove internal ord and disable bomber drones based on simply clicking one of the weaponry options.

Because of that, it would have to be a different plane, like the A-20G and B-25H have no drones and no bombsight.

Offline Grendel

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 12:09:47 PM »
There's currently no hangar option to remove internal ord and disable bomber drones based on simply clicking one of the weaponry options.

Because of that, it would have to be a different plane, like the A-20G and B-25H have no drones and no bombsight.

No need to remove/disable internal ord at all.
The internal bomb bays were indeed used when dive bombing with the Ju-88. The bombing system was a highly advanced mechanical computer, to which you could "program" any sorts of bomb dispersion patterns.

The internal bombs were released during the pullout from dive and could hit highly accurately, just as the bombs from the external racks, or cluster the target area.

It would be just the same plane.

Offline Charge

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 03:08:54 PM »
Add to that that B-25C has option for 8 forward firing .50Cals with formation enabled (3*8 .50Cals...). That is quite a bit more firepower than a single or triple MG-FFM and I wouldn't compare its effect to that of B25H.

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Offline Krusty

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 03:13:41 PM »
Charge: I've always felt that is a drawback with the AH limitations, that the strafer -C is allowed drones.

Grendel: I'm sorry but you're wrong on that one. Ju88s and most LW dive bombers made near vertical dives. The vertical racks used to store the internal 50kg bombs (slung upside down, by the way) won't function in a near-vertical dive, as they are perpendicular to the ground. Also, dropping them at low altitudes would not be effective, as 1) they are too small a bomb to use on specific targets, 2) they flutter, flip around, and are meant to scatter when dropped flying level [thus negating the accuracy that dive bombing gives you], and 3) the system just wouldn't drop them while diving.

Edit: Oh, and dropping them after pulling up was more spray-and-pray, inaccurate, and about as reliable as dive bombing lancasters in-game now. You make it sound as if it's precision-guided LGBs, but in fact it's more like a farmer scattering a handful of corn into the dirt.

In AH bombs fly through the plane (no impact) so you can dive bomb with internal ords, but you could not in real life. Not with most planes. That's why the Ju87 and many "dive bombers" had trapeze release mechanisms, to swing the bomb clear of the aircraft and its propellor.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 03:16:22 PM by Krusty »

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 04:58:11 PM »
Ju88s and most LW dive bombers made near vertical dives. The vertical racks used to store the internal 50kg bombs (slung upside down, by the way) won't function in a near-vertical dive, as they are perpendicular to the ground.

This alone gives away the fact you don't once again have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Ju-88 armament: MG/FF
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 10:29:57 PM »
my what a blanket statement.

LW dive bombing was a pinpoint thing (as near as could be done in WW2, it's why it was all the rage, why several major nations scrambled to get a dive bomber into their arsenal).

The racks inside a Ju88 are non interchangable. You can remove them (and the ability to carry bombs) but you can't change their function or orientation.

It's a fact the bomb racks were vertical. Point the nose at the ground in a dive and what do you get? Racks perpendicular to the ground.

Spin/insult any way you want, in a near vertical dive bomb those bombs ain't exiting the plane and they sure as hell ain't landing where you want them to. That's what the external bomb mounts were for, IMO.