Author Topic: Thank You Htc  (Read 1116 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2002, 05:10:21 PM »
FunkedUp... it seems like some increadibly displaced anger.  These are eny values.  Do you really think they mean anything?

Save it for something a tad more meaningful.

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Offline funkedup

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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2002, 05:16:21 PM »
Who's angry?  You wanna see angry, go read the Sicily forum.  Hangtime and I did our angry act in there.  I'm just wondering what the deal is with the perks/ENY.  I was hoping it would be used to create some kind of historical balance, or at least balance the effectiveness of different aircraft.  But it seems they are not using it for those purposes.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2002, 05:17:58 PM »
Funked- It should of been "don't you guys remember that the perk point system was designed so that the more rare planes in Aces Highwere given high ENY values while the more common ones in Aces High are given lower values?"

And this is a very factual statement, as you will notice the SpitV is much more common in Aces High than the La5FN.
-SW

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2002, 05:20:52 PM »
I just get that feeling from your posts funkedup... especially when it comes to anything spitfire.

My advice is to sit back and watch.  A lower eny will have the same effect as it did before (N1K2?).  It matters very little.  It seems a small concession to make in the grand scheme of things.  Really... ENY doesn't mater at all.

If anything.. this news should be encouraging to Spitfire Mk XIV fans.  The Ta 152 was reduced in value because it was too expensive and rarely used as a result.  In a year or two... they might reduce the perk cost of the XIV too;)

Oh... and I was 2:0 against Spit XIVs last tour:D

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Offline funkedup

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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2002, 05:21:51 PM »
RGR that SW, I understand you now.
I'll look into this.  I've learned over the years to not underestimate Pyro and HT.  Usually when I ask "Why the hell did they do that?" I find an answer that explains it.
 
I'll do something nerdy like graph historical production numbers vs. arena usage rates.  Knowing those guys it might match up pretty closely, or at least trend towards matching up from one tour to the next as they alter the values.

Offline hitech

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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2002, 05:22:39 PM »
Quote
The perk/ENY system clearly has no basis in history.


Who ever gave the slightest hint that it ever did?

As far as social engineering goes, what do you think online game design is all about?

Offline Beefcake

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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2002, 05:29:36 PM »
What about the Ar234? Is it still 60?
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2002, 05:32:20 PM »
Quote
Who ever gave the slightest hint that it ever did?


Nobody, it was wishful thinking.  :(


Quote
As far as social engineering goes, what do you think online game design is all about?


True.  I guess I just want you to social-engineer against the things I don't like and social-engineer in favor of things I like.  :D

...Thinking of it now as a control problem with a vector of plane usage rates as output and user dweebery as input.  Perk/ENY are your feedback gains.  That's a complicated system.  I guess it's silly for me to pretend to be able to decode your objective function by looking at the gains.  Shutting up now.  :)

Offline Glasses

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« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2002, 10:18:00 PM »
lower the value of the MkXIV to 25 maybe then the whines will subside a bit.

Offline Tac

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« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2002, 10:55:40 PM »
"Anyone wants La5 vs Spit 5 duel ? Any doubts to the outcome ? Heck, let's make it 12 vs 12 duel, still LA-5s or P38s will eat spitfires alive. "

vs 38 id bet on the spitv's. Vs la5 id bet on la5.

I dont care much about perks n stuff, but I royally find putting the 38 as such low eny to be a really bad idea. The one ride that cant run from a fight unless its facing an early war plane, the one plane that has its flaps wacked out (and it is completely dependent on its flaps too).. and which locks up controls completely on compression instead of being extremely sluggish (for some weird reason)... and its eny is lower than that of a jug-11?

Whats the reason? 38 being overused? I see far more 190's and 109s of all types than 38s in the MA. And when I do see lots of 38's its either mission planes loaded with ord that see more than half (if not all) of those 38's augering on their dive bomb runs.  

When I saw the eny change, I really beleived that if someone was out to gain perks, they sure as hell wouldnt take a 38.. or a P51. I mean, look, the n1k is 10 eny... and in a n1k, any acm challenged fighter ace convert can get himself three times the kills he would get in a 38 in the same time. And not even landing the thing either. Spitv 20 perks.. and yet again a spitV has a far better chance at racking up kills faster per hour than a 38.

If its for population control, I got news... they will use it even if the ENY is 0. They will still take n1ks up , still take spits up, still take whatever ride they want up. The only real population control is the perked planes. Try perking the 51D at 2 perks and see just how many Dponies are up in the next few weeks when compares with pre-perking time. Heck it worked for the CHOG didnt it? Note: I aint saying the 51D should be perked, just saying its got an earlier version of itself and it rarely gets used while theres a LOT of 51D's out there.

In my opinion, perks should only be awarded if you land the plane or ditch it in friendly territory. Bailing out or dying dont count. I bet that will seriously control the population of the powerplanes for those that fly them to gain perks by quaking the whole time. Those who dont fly them for perks... dont get perks and later on face those that did. Its a balance thingy.. quake or perks. And I cant even start to think what would happen if all but the early war planes/variants get perked to 1 or 2 perk costs... it worked wonders in the earlier CT setups, very ,very cool.

Offline majic

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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2002, 10:56:27 PM »
You know...I've only gotten a few hours in since patch 2, but I have yet to see a spit14...

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2002, 11:21:54 PM »
ENY P47d-11.... on my screen I swear it said 40!! +)


Perks are much easier to earn now IMO.  Especially with all the spits and 51's running around +)


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Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2002, 07:02:31 AM »
Could Pyro or HiTech explain the logic behind ENYs?

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2002, 12:27:32 PM »
Come on Funked and FdSki....

I know you guys are big time Spitfire fans, but you knew the XIV was going to be perked, and perked fairly high.  Hell, if the F4U-4 was perked at 60, I actually expected alot worse.  The plane is a beast.  Fast as a G10, but turns like a Spit IX, with the hispanos of death ;)  And your surprised??? Come on guys, I know you better.  I thought you would be happy with whats the most effective Spit XIV introduced to online gaming yet. Much more deadly than the WB's version of it.

Tac, more 190's and 109's than P-38's?  Only if you count them all together.  In AKDejavu's score pages, in the tour before the one we just finished, wasn't the P-38 the number 5 plane in usage? Its quite common now with the more... errr ummmm....  robust !?!?  .... damage model.

And for all those complaining about the Spit V coming down from its ENY value of 30 .... ***RASBERRIES*** !!!  ;)

You guys been milking that freebie cow for way too long now.

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2002, 01:41:43 PM »
Verm, i'm lucky if I manage to log in 20 sorties in the month in AH. Right now i have 300 perk points (something in that range )
Moment I lose them, I can't fly spitfire XIV till I "earn" it.

If I want to earn it in other planes I like, and let's for the moment assume that those are Spit 9 and 5 ) then i'm in ENV area with P51s and LA7s and it will take me a really long time.... especially seeing as they are some of the slowest planes in the plane set....


Each time that low level perk idea for late war planes is suggested, you'll see 17 post of "If P51D is perked at any perk, I quit, it is my favorite plane, and I earn it by paying 14.95 per month"

Why is it that same logic doesn't apply to all planes ?

If Spitfire XIV did 400 mph on the deck, I'd be the first one to suggest perking it, but as it stands, there are at least 5 unperked planes in the set which can easily run it down, at least 2 that can climb with it, and most of them with comparable guns.

So it turns well... oh gee... like it really matters at 350 mph...
Same people who post those "stupid turning Spitfire dweebs, they should learn to B&Z like me..." stuff are the ones who complain about Spitfire's ability to turn too well... irony of it all...