I have to say it.........

[Sabre]

This set up started with the ack leathality turned down 25% below normal.  It seemed about right while playing for several hours last night.  As for making the N1K2 available at more bases, it is already available at all but the most outlying island bases.  It's currently perked, but is not supposed to be.  I had put a message up on our forum asking for the perk values to be reset (zero for N1K2), but Pyro must not have seen it.  I've posted another request.  In the mean time, I could probably enable them at all original IJ bases, since the perk costs will control the numbers for now.

My only other thought on the lack of IJ firepower is to add the Ju88 back in as a Betty substitute.  I had also thought about adding the Bf110C-4 in as a sub for the Ki45 Nick; however, the feedback I was getting was that the immersion factor would suffer.  I can and will adjust the CV's to allow either F4Us or F6Fs, but not both.  I'll make two of the Allied CV's F5F boats, and one an F4U boat.  All will have TBMs.

Sabre
CT Staff

[hazed-]

thats really cool sabre.

I mean the idea of 1 cv for one type may not work but hey you never know.

for trying it out.

im also not too into replacement bombers or substitutes and i agree the immersion is lost.However it might be the only way until we have some way to attack a CV with 1-3 people and be effective in some way.

The ANSWER may well lie elsewhere sabre.After being suprised that the japanese torpedo happened to have exactly the same drop parimeters as the LW one I asked if anyone knew why, or if they used the same torpedos.I was told that the Japanese torpedo was an extremely rugged design and could be dropped at much higher speeds than the LW one.
If this is the case things could be RADICALLY different. If i was able to weave into the CV at a higher speed and not have to drop at 200ft sub 200mph(meaning @20-25 manifold on ki67!) then the Ki67 would be more dangerous than it is now.On the ju88 it can be slowed at the last minute easily but the Ki67 takes a lot more time.

Could you ask HTC about the torpdoes? this could well save the need for immersion killing replacement planes.

[Tac]

excellent

Reduce ack lethality to 50%

Add bf110C4 (Excellent idea! its almost in par with the nip twin!). I would also add the C202 to the nip arsenal, it'd be like the Ki-43/Ki44! Also, give them the 40mm Hurricane, to give the IJN some jabo ability (consider it the Yokosuka D4Y Suisei
"Judy" equivalent)

I dont know why the ju88 would be a good addition.. since the ki67 is avaliable. Ju88 is a target. As far as unperking the n1k.. I totally disagree. Do that and the zeke and tony wont get used. period.

My ideal planeset:

Allied :
Name // Perk Cost // carrier capable

F4U-1 // 0 // yes (so that at least one hog is cv capable and free)
F4U-D // 1 // yes
F6F // 2 // yes
P-38L // 1 // no (only from home bases and 1 field behind starting front lines)
Seafire // 0 // yes
Hurricane 1 // 0 // no
TBM // 0 // yes
B-26 // 1 // no

IJN

A6M5 // 0 // yes
Ki-61 // 0 // no
C202 // 0 // no
Bf110C4 // 0 // no
N1K-2J // 2 // no
Ki-67 // 1 // no
TBM // 0 // yes
40mm Hurricane // 0 // no

This would make the allies launch zeke equivalent craft from a CV and have a fair fight vs IJN rides unless using the perk costing rides (which they would have a counter in the n1k), would make the allied jabo-rides that are CV capable have a perk cost (and face it, it IS unfair when IJN can barely carry ord and yet the allies can carry mongo jabo ordenance from their CV and kamikaze on a field without any penalty). 38L would have to travel a sector or 2 to get to the action, while the n1k is avaliable at all fields, but at a higher perk cost.

[Hangtime]

the 'we can't sink the allied cv's' gripe is BS. I've watched betty's do it 6 times now... even saw a betty divebomb a boat into oblivion... something i've never been able to do with a b26. The betty's high speed and murderous defensive guns make it a very handy improvement over the b26's they had to use last time this setup was flown.

the ijn has a competent aircraft complement.

when they ORGANIZE and fly as a TEAM, they do quite nicely.

i think having one or the other USnavy fighters avail (f6f5, f4u-1)from the US cv's is fine.. as long as the f4u1d becomes avail from forward and captured airfields, UNPERKED.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by hazed-



no Tac this obviously is a figment of our imagination.According to eskimo and his 'buccaneers' this sort of thing just doesnt happen

we apparently need to 'get over it'.

funny, dont see too many buccaneers on the ijn side do you?

joking aside if people choose not to admit or accept the ijn are at a disadvantage then, well , what can anyone do.
Like i said i flew on both sides and found the allies enjoyable if a little dull because you cant really dogfight in them too welland it means bnz all the time(apart from in f6fs) and the ijn side frustrating. If you dont agree eskimo id appreciate it if you actually tried flying on their side first.I checked your stats and you have flown mostly f6f and no IJN at all.No wonder you dont agree.

I think that I made it clear that I was refering to last night.
You were refering to last night in your original post.
I have logged in to this weeks set up once, and I flew with my squad.  We flew the mission that we planned earlier in the week.
I can't really tell you much about the ballance in this week's set-up because I only have flown last night.

Personally, some set ups I fly one side all week.
Others I always log onto the side with lesser numbers each time I log on.
And often, I log onto the side that my squad mates are on.
But overall, I certainly have spent plenty of time as the underdog.
Much of it axis.

The big difference is,
I've learned not to whine about it.

I just take it or leave it, as it is.

eskimo

[Tac]

er.. hang.. why take a b26 when a f4U-D and F6F can carry 2k bombs and a few rockets? Why fly across entire sector to get to 12k when F4U and F6F get there in 1/3rd the time? IJN is majorly lacking in jabo capability.

If I was IJN and had a CV launching hogs and hellokittys armed with 2k bombs and rockets and I could only retaliate with stuff barely worth 500lbs.. and I had to not only FLY through the allied fighters (which can outrun me even when they loaded) but also CLIMB past the CV acks (which will take even MORE time than an allied plane would) and then dive bomb against 4X the AI ack firepower found on the field im defending... and THEN have to repeat the process until the CV takes the 8k to sink... well.. i'd say its pretty unbalanced right there.

The planeset i'd like would make both IJN and USN have almost equal capabilities for their unperked planes. JABO, which is an area which the allies can and do seriously abuse has taken the role of the B26. IJN simply cant compete at all if it was on the offensive, it'd have to bring their bombers to do the job. And then fighters to CAP it.

[Hangtime]

Tac, the same gripe comes up in the axis vs USAAF setups. Fact is, the axis invented it, the allies perfected it.

what the IJN can do is USE their very competent buffs. And they do. In addition, the zeke totes 1 500lb, the Ki 2 500's, so does the n1k. They ain't freakin helpless when it comes to JABO. As one CM so likes to remind me.. "it's historical".

I use our b26 to kill IJN CV's because it can do it a better in fewer sorties. takes 8k to down a cv in this setup.. i can down the CV in 2 sorties and live thru it... rather than dying 4 times delivering eggs via f6f. The Betty can and does do the same.

[brady]

Betty? Err not to come off as being anel or anything but the Betty bomber which we do not have can cary aprox. 800kg. The Peggy which we do have can cary aprox. 800kg. The adation of the JU 88 to the plane set was a game play concesition and is no way historical, the Betty had 20mm type 99 defensive guns a smaller bomb load and was very fragile and not a dive bomber, much unlike the JU in a fair number of ways.

 Hangtime has a point on the JABO issue, howeaver with the adation of the Bf 110 series this factor has largley been adresed for the Axis in general. Their are a couple of planes that could be added to the Japanese plane set that would help in the JABO area, A Ki 102 with it's monster 57mm cannon and typical Japanses bombload of 2 500pounders would be nice, and a Grace for CV strike capabality. Other than that the Geeorge has a good atack capabality with it's ton of 20mm ammo and 2 500pounders.

 One thing that apears to be overlooked is the presence of the TBM, it packs 2k of bombs, thats 4 trips to sink a CV.

[Hangtime]

you are correct brady. i'm mis-identifying the ki67 with the 'betty'.. in the game, i've been mentally associating the games new japanese twin engine med buff (the peggy) in my mind as a 'betty'.

whoops.

i still think of and refer to the george in the sim as a 'nikki' too..

my bad. i think i heard somewhere this ticks pyro off, too.

double whoops.

[hazed-]

well there we have it. from fun to misery in one change of a map.

eskimo you seem to be trying the holier than thou approach and to be honest i dont know where you get off doing it.I felt the setup was wrong and i either question it or leave.

This was the whole point of the post.I felt it was the most frustrating time ive had since...well since the last time i played as IJN/A.If like you say you want me to either like it or lump it then fine im lumping it.Great for the CT to have players leaving the arena isnt it?

Im not alone in thinking that the ballance wasnt right but apparently according to you we should all take it or leave it.Well thats the whole problem with the CT.Too many leaving it.

Well i asked for change somewhere to help re-address the ballance and get nothing but flak and abuse for it.I know im not alone in thinking it.I wasnt sure of course but thanks to others posting here i realise im not completely wrong.what did you do ignore them too?

What really amazes me is the fact that someone like tac who is a fan of allied planes like the p38 is trying to tell you just how frustrating it gets and you all ignore him like hes trying to get some sort of axis advantage.Its always the same.No matter who says it they are immediately labeled a whiner.The fact that the IJN, with EXACTLY the same players who had fantastic fights with you in other setups are basically down to 1 base inside 2 days and ask for something to even it out has been completely ignored.why? well maybe because its so easy as allies and you like it that way?.We are whiners, yeah thats it, we all want a free ride and to ruin the allies day.Hell i sit up at night trying to think of ways i can do that.We arent asking for a fair game at all.we want advantage right?

yeah spot on.

Im here for enjoyment not petty squabbles and frustration.I dont desire anything other than a fair 2 sided battle of wits with other players.We each choose our ride and away we go.I dont need advantage, in fact i generally choose to fly the harder aircraft for the challenge.But there comes a point where the challenge is no fun at all.this is the time to step back and try to find out why.The answer is simple.The setup needs adjustment.

You want it left as it is fine, i hope you enjoy shooting your teammates because they will be the only ones in there come the end of the week.



to sabre for trying to help but its just not going to work with people like this.Ill be back in CT saturday for the new map i guess.Until then I guess im stuck with the MA.

[eskimo2]

Originally post:

Originally posted by hazed-
Im becoming a little discouraged by the MA type attitude to fighting im seeing more and more of in the CT of late.

A lack of interest in any organisation or missions etc.
Same kill no matter what attitude
Not allowing players the chance to launch even when no capture is in progress

NO vulching just for kills!!!but for a capture only?
no gangbanging?

I really thought i was going to see more cooperation or at least small groups flying together.Some people in the CT try to consider it a one life event like a scenario and to be vutched or shot whilst ditching is a real spoiler for their chosen style of play.

Originally posted by hazed- [

eskimo you seem to be trying the holier than thou approach and to be honest i dont know where you get off doing it.I felt the setup was wrong and i either question it or leave.

You want it left as it is fine, i hope you enjoy shooting your teammates because they will be the only ones in there come the end of the week.

[/B]

Hazed,

Please read YOUR words that I have quoted before reading what I have to say...

In your ORIGINAL post you laid into both the aircraft set-up and the player mentality, particularly vulching.

I have NO problem with making complaints against this or any plane set-up.  Plane type complaints and discussions are valid if not necessary.  In fact, I agree that you bring up some good points, about the plane-set.  But I haven't challenged that, have I?
      
As far as player mentality goes, your clearly whining bud.
Why the heck do you assume that there's some kind of "Gentleman's Agreement" that myself or anyone, should let you gain an equal E-state before engaging?  If players go through the trouble of de-acking a base, and beating the fight down at the same time, they deserve to take a shot at anyone who tries to take off.  Anyone who tries to take off from a de-acked and capped base had better expect, and clearly deserves, to get shot on take-off.  If they don't like it, too bad.  That's how the game is played.  They can start or find another fight elsewhere, or come to the rescue, with alt from a rear base.

When the enemy gains this status, however, either surrender the base or continue to fight at a severe disadvantage, but don't whine about it.

The A6M becomes very dangerous about 10 seconds after spawning.  Because so many axis players were flying the Zero, it made getting true air superiority (including vulching) over an axis base very difficult.  I haven't had such a hard time holding a vulch as I did Saturday night. ( To the IJN fliers and their little twisty Zekes!)  If anyone thinks they have free passage to roll and get airborne over a capped-n-vulched base they are mistaken.  Everyone has a choice.  But that's how this game is played in both the MA and the CT.

Hazed, you have been playing this game a long time and I am surprised to see you complaining about vulching.  

Call my attitude "holier than thou" if you wish, I'll call it "not whinin about something that's completely ingrained into the game."

The next time I log in, I very well may fly IJN if they are at a disadvantage.  I love the zero.  It is one of my main rides in both the MA and CT.  If I don't like the numbers, I may log out as well... That's the "leave it part".  If I do get a Zeke to an Allied base, and manage to de-ack it, I will shoot anyone who rolls...  That is my mentality... take it or leave it.

BTW,
I have killed 6 of my squad-mates in the CT.


eskimo

[hazed-]

er you missed a point eskimo.I did say vulvhing during a capture is completely valid and i agree anyone who deacks a base deserves some kills.This isnt a complaint on vulching per se it was refering to an 'incident' the other day when there was maybe 8 or 9 people on (some 3 axis vs 6 allied).A fight was ensueing over a base and i was on the allied side.We had completely trounced the jap base but wasnt in the process of capture because we were all above the base in F6fs and F4us. the 3 guys taking off said on the open channel 'could we at least let them take off' as they didnt want to fly from the next nearest base some 50 miles away.I thought it was fair enough seeing as how if they did that the fights would basically end.It was as much for our fun as theirs.
so i continued myattack but hit the structures.
But when they started rolling, which i would imagine they wouldnt have had a few of us not said 'ok', in went all but 2 or 3 of the allies on at the time and straffed them, pissing them off in the process and makeing one of them log off.I knew a have flown with all those players and they dont complain without reason.Great though eh? 2 axis left to fight, what fun eh?

so as you cant see this was a complaint 'on behalf' of those players not because i was vultched.I personally would have flown from the next base but not if someone had asked to get up at least and got an ok from several players.we can all read the text buffer, it was obvious what was asked.
After this and a few other incidents, like calling for help and seeing friendlies fly on by i decided i prefered to fly axis and changed to help them out.
Now i knew full well we had a rediculous advantage in these situations but it didnt seem to bother others.This is the MA attitude im speaking of.

You obviously havent had those fights where you and your foe fight a great fight and youre hit and try to ditch and that same enemy your skill and lets you ditch? I really appreciate this sort of thing.I know its kinda silly but its a form os sportsmanship.
You havent GOT to follow this 'code' and im certainly not DEMANDING anyone do it but IT IS a good thing and people do appreciate it whether you beleive it or not.I know because ive heard the thankyous and 's when i do it.

Like i said 'where has it gone?'. eskimo you were in AH for a long time right? well if you was you must remember the differnce in behaviour when we had the huge influx from AW? the kill stealling/ignoring friendlies in trouble type of behaviour?(it increased, wasnt new of course) for me it had ruined the MA.The gangbanging in there is at an extreme at the moment.tell me it doesnt piss you off?
combat theatre WAS a refuge from it to a certain extent and i loved it because of it.This is no whine eskimo its a statement of my dissapointment that people seem to be slipping into this sort of thing in the CT too.Seems it is never going to be the norm.

you capped a base for capture? i have no problem with it.HOWEVER, if it was just your squad on with 9 players and you was up on a sweep of a base and you kill the 3 defenders (total enemy online)then they say 'let us up' for another fight knowing they are well outnumbered would you mercilessly vulch them or would you think 'hey, its cool that they still want to give us a fight' and let them up? I know what I'd do, I'd just like to know what you would do?(btw not a dig at you just a question)

It may be that the only thing in AH that will get haf decent behaviour is TOD or scenarios.I really hope not because i want to have a 24/7 'different' arena which it certainly has been up until lately (well most of the time )

[Ghosth]

I logged out of the CT 4 times this weekend in total disgust. Very much not like me at all.

In my opinion you CT managers really fell down when you set up this plane set in the first place.
There is NO balance between the Axis and allied sides.

Zeke vs Hellcat is fine but from there it went to hell.

Allies have 4 ac that can carry 2k of bombs or better and fight themselves out of a hole if jumped.

Allies have TBM, & KI-67 either of which are easy meat to an allied fighter.

Frankly I think the CT lost more people this last weekend than in gained in the BOB. I know I won't bother trying it again till we have a new setup.

[eskimo2]

Hazed,
You harped on vulching 3+ times at the BEGINNING of your original post.
It sure sounds to me like there's more to it than mentioning it "on behalf" of some other players.  Especially when your major gripe was the plane-set.
Spin it however you like.

Originally posted by hazed- [
HOWEVER, if it was just your squad on with 9 players and you was up on a sweep of a base and you kill the 3 defenders (total enemy online)then they say 'let us up' for another fight knowing they are well outnumbered would you mercilessly vulch them or would you think 'hey, its cool that they still want to give us a fight' and let them up? I know what I'd do, I'd just like to know what you would do?(btw not a dig at you just a question)
) [/B]

About the only normal situations that I won't shoot at an enemy are:
* When he is airborne and missing a essential part to maintain controlled flight.  I.E. an entire wing, tail or horizontal stab.
* When he is in a chute.  The longer he is in a chute, the longer it takes him to become an effective threat again.

Other than that, I ruthlessly and mercilessly kill everything I see.
Chivalry is BS and only for those who are either trying to make others happy or trying to portray themselves as some kind of noble-gentleman-hero-wannabe, when in-fact they're just another dork playing on a computer (as am I).

In the exact situation that you described above, it would depend.
If a squadmate or countryman was approaching in a goon, no way would I let them up.
Otherwise, probably.

eskimo

[Sabre]

Ghost: I have to say that this plane set is much more balanced than the first two times we ran a PTO set up.  I completely took out Spits and Hurris, and have as historic a planeset as possible while still giving the IJ a fighting chance.  I also gave each side three CV's this time, while before the Allies had 3 and the IJN only 2.  Is it perfect? Nope.  I can't help feeling that if I allowed N1K2's at every field for the IJ to try to give them a more even playing field, I'd get howls about uber-nikkies ruining the CT.  I've played both IJ and US in this set up, and enjoyed both.  Had a great fight against Hazed, me in a Tony and him trying to B&Z me in a P-47.  It ended with a draw (and me dead-sticking on rtb when he ran me out of fuel...glad he didn't know, too;)).

To win this scenario, the US must capture all the IJ fields.  The Japanese only have to prevent this to win.  Their outlying fields don't have N1K2's, so stripping these is easier for the US.  The inner Japanes islands have the N1K2's enabled, making them harder to take.  I'm not apologizing for the set up, just trying to put it into perspective.  Hope to see you back in here.  This is why we only run set ups for a week, btw.  Not everyone likes every set up.

Sabre
CT Staff