Combat theatre..a failure??

[WhiteHawk]

Keep wanting to try out a different format.  Keep looking at
combat theatre.  It seems there are always <12 people in there.
 Not nearly enuff to  warrant any kind of  organized and sustained  action.  Hmm,  guess CT is a failure eh?
  Then I started to wonder, maybe the idea isnt a failure.
  I come to realize that the problem MAY be--
  bringing an established population to a new idea may be
much more difficult than bringing a new idea to an established
population.  The population being the MA, the new idea being CT.
  So i would toss up the idea for discussion.....
  How about throwing a CT format into the MA terrain
rotation.  i.e.  TEMPORARILY suspending the BISH Knite rook
format for, say, an allied-axis CT format.
  When one side is defeated, back to the, BISH KNIGHT ROOK-
baltic terrain (or whatever) rotation.
  Not trying to wreck anybodys fun, but I think that this,
or differnt 'spices' for the MA would keep AH from stagnating.
  If the idea is approved by the population, then it stays in the
rotation, if it sux then ti goes.
 ( This may give the LW vs The allied pilots a chance to
slug it out, inside the squared circle, instead of the BB's.)

[Sikboy]

[Kieran]

Hasn't the customer obviously spoken?

Are you refusing to take "no" for an answer?

If the people in the MA want to fly in an arena like a CT, they have a CT in which to fly. That they don't speaks volumes, doesn't it?

I like the CT. I fly there. I don't see it as a failure, just something different.

[Maverick]

Gee, this looks like the 12 people who use the CT dictating how the average of 450+ other player need to play huh. That's real fair, obviously that 12 know SO much more about how the larger group need to enjoy the game.

I agree, the numbers indicate the desires of the majority of players.

[WhiteHawk]

I guess that is the question Kieran..would it be offering
people something different, or forcing something different on
the people?  CT is a failure as a seperate theatre, as u say,
the customer has obviously spoken.  
  But lets not call it Combat theatre.
  Its basically a HTH arena, with a limited planeset, and
u cant shoot friendlys.
  Ok..my next question..Where are the events at???

[hblair]

Originally posted by Maverick
Gee, this looks like the 12 people who use the CT dictating how the average of 450+ other player need to play huh. That's real fair, obviously that 12 know SO much more about how the larger group need to enjoy the game.

Looks to me like that was whitehawks suggestion. Why do you imply it's the "12 people in the CT's dictating it" ? Why you guys turn the MA/CT thing into a goodguy/badguy WWF tag team event is beyond me.

Originally posted by Maverick

I agree, the numbers indicate the desires of the majority of players.

You're right on this one though.

[Sabre]

Actually, our numbers have been significantly better than that at times and sometimes worse.  There were about 30 on last night for a while, and I've seen close to 60 at peak times during some set ups.  It is definitely a minority when compared to the MA, but I have it on good authority that HiTech doesn't consider it a failure by any means.  He's generally happy with how things are going, and doesn't expect it to rival the MA in popularity (at least not for a while;)).  He understands the dynamics we are fighting against, as well as other factors like limited planeset and terrains.

Now that I've defended the CT (hey, what did you expect from me?), back to the suggestion above.  The reason the CT was opened was to provide a more quazi-historical environment for a small but loyal (and vocal) group of players that wanted a choice to compliment the MA, not to replace it.  While I don't think your suggestion would kill AH, I've a feeling it would alienate more players than it pleased.  And I'll take 12 players in the CT over 300 in the MA anytime:D.  I rarely want for "sustained action" while playing there, though admittedly I fly during peak US times, as a rule.  Give it a try!

Sabre
CT Staff

[lazs2]

axis vs allies is the problem.   While at first galnce an "historical" setting seems really cool and immersive...  Anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of WWII knows that there were very few periods of parity and variety.   That translates very poorly to a .... GAME.

The only real time for parity is BOB and it is very limited for planeset.   Not for everyone.   the nuimbers in the CT went up tho during BOB times..  a no brainer.  

Having said that... You could increase numbers in the CT by simply shutting down the MA.   WB did it and they increased the "historical" numbers..  course numbers as a whole went down the dumper and have never recovered.

Having nightime in the MA or having the MA closed increases CT numbers.   Electro shock would probly work too as would death threats or threats against family members of players who insisted on playing in the MA.
lazs

[CptTrips]

>Hasn't the customer obviously spoken?


Absolutely.  The above would be completely unacceptable to me.  I would prolly close my account for as long as it was setup that way to make my preferences clear to HTC.

The CT serves 2 important functions:

1.  Its provides an excellent crucible to develop and refine techniques and tools for eventual us in scenarios.  Scenarios are where its really at, but the CT gives an excellent chance to try out various maps and configurations and plane sets so that when it comes time for a scenario,  Everyone has a better idea of what works and what doesn't.  Its a scenario proving ground.

2.  It provides a place for people who only want to fly that setup to go without having to screw around with the MA setup.  Its provides a shield for HTC agianst the realism nazis.  They can go there and do whatever they want.  Keeps them out of the MA and off  HTC's back.

As long as the CT continues to serve the above functions, it will never be a "failure" in my eyes.

I find the implication that "the MA population is just too stupid to know any better and if it was just crammed down their throats they would thank us for it later" rather insulting.

I'd wager that a majority percentage of the MA players have participated in one or more scenarios.  We know exactly what historical maps, historical match ups, and limited plane sets are like.  I'd further wager that a large percentage have even tried the CT at one time or another.  I have.  Its not my cup of tea.  In my opinion, it suffers the worst of both types of play.  It doesn't have the organization, clear sense of purpose, and detail of a scenario.  It also doesn't have the freedom, vitality, excitement, and down right chaos of the MA.  Its somewhere in the middle.  But thats OK.  I think its servers other purposes as I've stated that justifies its existence.  But it is, and always will be a side show.

Regards,
Wab

[WhiteHawk]

Yes sabre, I have tried it.  And I love the format.  I cant
figure why so few few people fly it.  Except for the roots
of just about everyone are in CT.  (Squads, wingies, etc.).  
  And I go there, fly a mission, then people start to
switch sides to even things out.  And that kind of wrecks
the feeling that, i believe, was intended.
  Unfortunatley, my times of flying are 2:00am-3:30am
weeknites and some weekend peak times.  Most of the
time there arent any in CT.  Sometimes there are 12.
  Like I said, I dont think its the idea thats failing.  
  Its competing against an established, well liked, familiar
arena (MA).  thats the problem, and the answer, if there
is one, or if there needs to be one, is going to be difficult.

[AKSWulfe]

The answer is simple, on your own behalf and on your own time, go out and find like minded individuals so you can have as much fun in the CT as the 400 other people do in the MA.

It's not difficult, doesn't require a math degree and best of all, only requires word of mouth.

The answer is staring you square in the face. I've played the CT, a few times it was fun. Other times I left for the MA. The only way to get more people in the CT is to find more people who like those kinds of setups. Obviously forcing the MA people into the CT is not the answer, because they prefer the MA.
-SW

[eskimo2]

WhiteHawk,
I understand where you are coming from.
 and agree to the point that there are many folks out there who do not realize what they are missing.

But it doesn't matter if those folks make up 1% or 50% of the MA.  Forcing such a huge change on the MA crowd would be a disaster and tick people off.

The best thing that you can do to help the CT is to fly in it.  The more people that are logged in, the more likely it will be for others to join.

eskimo

[Kieran]

I fly in the MA and the CT for different reasons and, frankly, because both are available. I'm funny, I like options. I can eat an apple from one hand and an orange from another, and I don't feel compelled to turn an apple into an orange to make the orange taste last longer.

As to switching sides, of course I will switch sides if the balance is 12-3. What point would I have for being there if I didn't? Believe it or not, a 6 vs 6 fight is a pretty good balance, and I'll take 12 in the CT anyday. In reality, I prefer that to the MA fly into the horde, die in a few turns chaos at peak hours.

I need my elbow room.

[Kuben]

Here's my take:
I'd love to play more in the CT - the only reason I don't is because there are usually less than 10 people playing.  If there were more people playing, I'd play more in there as well.

It's a viscious circle  

Kuben

[Drano]

Don't know if you should say CT is a failure. That's kinda strong. No it doesn't have 300+ pilot in it and IMO that's a good thing for the folks that hang in CT. Lots of times I've flown in there with numbers in the 30-40 range and that's a nice little battle going on.

I fly both CT and MA. I like the CT for the AvA matchups and smaller, more focused crowd. I like the MA for winging with my squaddies. Usually just depends on my mood.

                               Drano