Author Topic: Gonna buy a handgun  (Read 1533 times)

Offline events

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2002, 04:58:00 AM »
Hblair,

You have loads of great advice here, but only you can
decide what firearm feels right when you pick it up.

Pick a day when you have loads of time, and stop by
a local firearms dealer.  For example:

Sportsman Exchange INC
611 Walnut Street
Gadsden, Al
256-546-9609

Tell them what you want.  Pick up a variety of guns
and get the feel.  Get the price range.  You don't
have to buy something on your first visit, but do
get the address for your nearest gun range/gun safety
course.

Hope this helps.

Events.

GryFox

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2002, 08:08:23 AM »
If you want pictures of the guns everyone is talking about, check out this website:
gunsamerica.com

It'll give you some idea of prices also.

Generally you can find good buys on handguns if you are patient. They are one of the first things people buy when they have extra cash and one of the first things they sell when in a bind.

One more piece of advice for what it's worth. If you are going to use a firearm for home defence, take time in selecting the caliber and ammo for your firearm. For example, if you fire a .357 full metal jacket round in your house it could travel through several rooms before it stops. It's good to know what's behind your target.  

Practice with the ammo you are going use in the weapon. A lot of people practice with cheap ammo and then load it with more expensive ammo for defence purposes. Various ammo's have different flight and feeding characteristics. I had a gun that fed full metal jackets fine, but it would not feed properly with hollow points.

Happy Hunting
GF

Offline CavemanJ

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Re: If it isnt a Colt, its just a copy.
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2002, 08:41:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar



   So true Hangtime.  =)  Obviously everyone has their prefrence with pistols - I think I can show some light in the subject here.  Im working at a rifle range right now - extra cash for college - and we have pistols and rifles available to rent.  Many of the guns listed in this thread we have at the range - some are good - some are not.

First and formost Ill push my personal favorite - the Colt 1911A1 .45ACP.  For concealed carry - a fullsize 1911 is a workout.  The pistol weighs a good amount and the rounds arent exactly featherlight either.  A compact Commander, Officer's Carry, or Defender offer both shorter barrels and lighter weight.  The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) round is  - bar none - the best self defense round in existance.  The velocity and the weight of the slug are enough to put anyone out of action for good.  Think of it this way - a 9mm is very fast, but light - almost like driving a nail into something with a hammer.  A .45 ACP... is the hammer - slow and heavy (if the sun is at the right angle, you can watch the bullet fly through the air - that slow).  Knockdown power is what you want.  It doesnt have good armor penetration, but I doubt anyone you might have to defend yourself from is wearing Class 3 body armor.  :P  Anyway - the 1911A1 is simply the finest pistol out there.  It dominates in professional pistol shooting and is the prefered choice for concealed carry.  Ive owned two Colt's in the past year or so and Ive never had ANY problems with them.  A brand new rollmarked 1991A1 (slightly redesigned) will run you about $550 - higher end and custom models will run you more.  I would stay away from any other 1911 producer other than Wilson Combat ($2000+ range here) for carry.  Kimbers are better shooting guns out of the box, but are prone to reliabilty issues (FTF, FTFe, FTRTB, etc) and you actually want the gun to go off if you need it.  Springfield Armory is declining in quality - too expensive in the $500-$600 range for what they offer and Para-Ord is a joke.  The only disadvantages of the 1911 for carry are the fact that it is a single action pistol... must be carried locked and cocked in order to be employed - call me amature, but I was uncomfortable with this at first, and the heavy recoil.  Granted its not a .50AE Desert Eagle, but the .45 will kick considerablly making followupo shots difficult unless the weapon is ported.  The most wonderful thing about a 1911 is the trigger pull... great out of the box and even better after a trigger job - this is why the pistol dominates shooting competitions.  It is important to note however the difference between Colt's 1911's - Series 70 and Series 80 pistols.  Generally speaking - Series 70 pistols are more desirable and are better shooters, but less safe.  The Series 80 pistols have MANY safety features added to them, as well as some external parts that make the gun easier to shoot - this at the expense of a PERFECT trigger pull.. instead you only have NEAR PERFECT - still 100% better than any double action pistol listed.


Verra nice summation on the 1911-A1/91-A1 Saur.  I always through the recoil on my Goldcup was just right, and never had a problem with successive shots.  And no, it wasn't ported :D

The biggest difference between the 70series and the 80series is the firing pin block safety.  A really nice addition to the 1911 from a safety standpoint.  Won't let the firing pin engage unless the trigger is depressed (similar to Glocks).  This is where most of the trigger complaints on the 80series come from.  But still a better trigger than just about any other handgun, save maybe the single action revolvers and a select few double action revolvers fired single action :D.

The Colt Delta Elite is also a VERY nice weapon, if you can find one.  1911-A1 80series frame chambered in 10mm.  I was surprised by how well behaved this weapon was.

As several folks have pointed out, try it before you buy it.  If the shop you go to doesn't want to let you dry fire the weapon ask them if they have SnapCaps.  They are basically a plastic cartridge with a spring loaded plate inplace of a primer and give the firing pin the resistance it needs to hit.

Caliber makes a difference.  As has been pointed out 9mm is worthless.  Too high velocity and too low impact.
The .45ACP is the exact opposite, real low velocity (as Saur said you can see the round in flight in the right light) and HIGH impact.
Think about the guns on the 109G10.  The MGs are the 9mm and that 30mm tater gun is the .45ACP.  Sure, you can kill with the MGs after spending alot of ammo.  That tater gun is one shot BOOM!
Then there's the .40S&W cartridge.  It's supposed to be a "best of both worlds" round, good velocity and good impact.  It's not a bad caliber.  I think I've still got a box of Winchester Black Talons in .40S&W from when I had my Glock23 :D  I think I'd rather have a 10mm over a .40 though (.40 is just a shortened 10mm anyway).
the .357sig in an interesting cartridge (since someone mentioned it).  It's a .40 case necked down to 9mm.  I've never really liked this one.

For defense the ammo you chose can make a difference also.  Remington Golden Sabers were my preferred carry load.  "Flying Trash Cans" was a nickname stuck on them by an editor for one of the gun mags.  If there was enough light you could see the HUGE cavity of the round waiting to fly out of the barrel (I looked using a mirror).  Just looking down the barrel of my 1911 with the mirror was enough to send chills down the spine.  I really would not like to be looking directly into he business end of one.

If you're thinking about revolvers you can't go wrong with a .357mag.  Been several years since I actually kept up with all the testing etc, but the Federal 125gr jacketed hollow point was still the king of one shot stops.  Followed closely by the .45ACP.  I've got a real sweet Colt Trooper .357mag with 6" barrel.  The single action trigger on it is sweeter than any raced 1911-A1 I've ever seen :D

Offline Leslie

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2002, 09:02:16 AM »
One thing to remember about carrying a handgun HB, is don't ever leave the gun in your truck unattended.  When I carry, which is rare nowadays, I always stick the gun in my pocket when I'm out of the vehicle...or hide it in the trunk of my car where it can't be easily found by a thief, e.g.  I have a 44. Bulldog Pug which fits easily in my pocket and is fairly concealable.  I used to go jogging with it and carried it in a belly band holster...but thinking about that now, it was probably unwise to do so.

A good, all purpose semi auto is the Colt .45, if you're just going to take it on hunting trips and such.  It's a fun one to shoot.  Colt is out of business now, but Auto Ordnance (Thompson) makes an acceptable product.  Otherwise, look at a small 9mm pistol you can stick in your pocket when you go to the store, etc.  Walther P38 K (Kurtz) would be great for this, but it's about $1000.00 or so, if they still make 'em.



Les

Offline midnight Target

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2002, 10:22:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
"Liquor, Gun and Ammo"

Golly-geeit if thats not an opening for my buddy Tahgut I don't know what is! :D


Sorry, I was out shooting spotted owls and drinking Long Necks. I guess I missed something? :cool:

Offline Elfenwolf

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2002, 10:49:03 AM »
MT, scroll back. We were talking about handguns, then Gunthr started bragging about shooting Dolphins, and while I agree dolphin-free tuna tastes bland in comparison to the 10% dolphin allowed tuna I don't believe Gunthr has the right to just gun  down  all those Flippers in cold blood like that.

Oh- and SOME of them are even planning on bringing their handguns to the Convention! If that isn't a thought that'll send chills down your spine I don't know what is. Buncha guys gettin drunk, one calls another one a stinkin vulcture, he gets offended, they both pull guns and decide to "duel"...

Offline midnight Target

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2002, 11:04:09 AM »
Agreed, but not quite as chilling as the thought of paying $125 to RENT a monitor!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

Offline sling322

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2002, 12:02:15 PM »
Heh...I can rent you a 17"monitor for $50 instead.  :)

Offline milnko

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Re: If it isnt a Colt, its just a copy.
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2002, 12:30:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
.357's are nice because you can also shoot .38's through them.  .38s are cheap and great for practice - when used for defence - the .357 is one of the best rounds out there - decent power and BLINDING speed.  (Anywhere from $350 to $700)

Years ago I bought a Dan Wesson .357mag with interchangable barrels.
I got mine with the 6" barrel.

I liked the fact that with the interchangeable barrels I could quickly swap out to 8" or 4" or snubnose it down to 2 1/2", I don't recall now what all the different sizes available were, but I think they went all the way up to 12".

Being it was a .357mag capable of shooting .38s, plus having all the different barrel sizes made the Dan Wesson fell like five or six handguns rolled into one.

I always bought .38 reloads for target practice and plinking, then at the end of the day clean her up, fill her with .357s and put her away for home defense.

When I bought it in the early 80's down in Jacksonville Fl. you just walked in, picked her out, slapped down the cash, and walked out.

My wife went with me when I went to the dealer, and as I was waiting for the dealer to finish putting the 6" barrel on, my wife saw this little .25 automatic with pearl handle grips in the display case, she said "Why don't ya get that one, it's cheaper and it's cute"

I told her I didn't want "cute" and that if you were to have to shoot someone with the .25 all ya'd do is piss em off, they'd keep right on comin', take the thing away from ya and club ya with it as that would do more damage that shooting ya with it.

I said I wanted the .357mag cuz' when ya have to shoot someone you only want 'em going two directions, back and down.

Offline Zippatuh

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2002, 02:00:36 PM »
Hblair,

Well you certainly have lots of responses and although I didn’t read all of them they seem to have some good information and advice.  Here’s mine though.

Your price range is going to be a problem for the premium weapons the other gents have mentioned.  I have a Beretta 9mm that is an excellent firearm once I took the fixed sight out and had an adjustable one put in.  I would suggest that any semi-automatic you get to drop the extra money to have the sight replaced, it will be worth it in the end for accuracy sake.  9mm rounds are also not that high and you can buy reload rounds to go plinking.  The price range for these weapons is going to get you though.

For the money you want to spend, I would go straight to a S&W .357 of some kind.  S&W makes a good quality firearm that can be picked up for a reasonable amount.  Most of the deals I have found were used and resold in the counter.  You shouldn’t have any problem picking up a S&W .357 for 350 and under.

Using 38 rounds to target shoot with make an added plus.  Reloaded 38 rounds are very cheap.  Hell for a small fee I could even load some for ya ;).

If your desires are is to go with the semi because of an aversion to revolvers then for the price, I would look at Kimber firearms.  They are relatively inexpensive compared to the others semi-auto’s.  You may also want the trigger and slide reworked on any semi-auto, unless it’s one of the premiums, to have the barbs taken off.  It’s not that expensive to have done and well worth it.  It may not need it but if you start to get double feeds and gams it is most likely because of this.

Trying to get inside the price range you have and end up with a quality firearm, I would stick to the six shooters.  They’re more accurate anyway.  And for you semi-auto enthusiast, yeah a 1911 can have a great target setup and will also cost you 4 figures for a good one.  The only time I’ve been beaten at a match by a semi was when the guy dropped another 6-800 dollars on the Glock he had already sank a lot of money into just to purchase.

Lead hollow point, copper jacketed, 4 notched edges in the copper .357 round will put a frown on anyone’s face permanently and if you miss and hit a limb, well, they didn’t need that one anyway.

Offline Durr

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2002, 04:29:02 PM »
Somebody here said that Ruger is the Corvette Z0-6 of handguns.  If thats true then Sig is the Mercedes Benz.  I originally didnt like Sigs much since there layout is different for the mag release, slide release, safety etc. from what I am used to.  However,  I am a new Sig convert.  I dont own one yet, but I am looking for a .45 Sig that I can afford.  Only drawback is they cost a bunch.  I currently own 3 handguns, but the only one that is really much of a self defense weapon is my Taurus 9mm.  It is a good gun, accurate, reliable etc, but the 9mm is a wussy cartridge for sure.  One good thing about 9mm is the ammo is cheap though.  Lots of people cant hit with the .45 and cant afford to practice to where they can hit.  Better a bad guy with 5 9mms in him then one that you miss with your .45.  The .45 is the superior self defense weapon though if you can handle it.   Its interesting to note that the military is slowly shifiting to .45 handguns in certain fields such as special forces and aviation.  Many aviators are now issued .45 Sigs instead of the 9mm Beretta.  I am also looking for a good used Colt .45 M1911, also a .357 revolver for hunting trips out West.

By the way, Im pretty sure from the context of the post that the guy that said he shoots dolphin was talking about the dolphin that is a fish, not the ones of the porpoise variety.  There is a fish called dolphin, which is a popular sportfish.  It causes no end of confusion to people that dont know this.

Offline midnight Target

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2002, 04:42:19 PM »
Dolphins are FISH???? Oh Mahi!!

Offline MrBill

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2002, 04:51:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Dolphins are FISH???? Oh Mahi!!


 Shouldn't that be "koi mahi"?  da dum!
We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

Offline Doberman

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2002, 05:00:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfenwolf

Oh- and SOME of them are even planning on bringing their handguns to the Convention! If that isn't a thought that'll send chills down your spine I don't know what is. Buncha guys gettin drunk, one calls another one a stinkin vulcture, he gets offended, they both pull guns and decide to "duel"...


When I went down for the 1998 WB con, I brought my Kimber .45 along.  There had been tentative plans to go and do some shooting.  I was a little disappointed when I went over to the main office with HT and the main tech guy (can't remember his handle at the moment) and there was a little "No Guns Allowed" sign on the front door of their complex. :)  Looked like one of those little "No Smoking" symbols with the red crossed circle over a cigarette, except it was a little handgun inside the circle.   Cute.

I got pulled over for speeding on the way home, while still in TX.  When I went into the trunk to get my documentation the officer saw boxes of stacked ammo and asked if I had a handgun in the car.  I told him, "Yes, I did.  I'd heard that if I entered Texas without one, I'd be assigned one at the border.  So I figured I'd just bring my own."  He wasn't overly amused and told me to put it in the trunk.  Here in IL, the gun & ammo are supposed to be in seperate parts of the vehicle so I was a bit surprised at that.  And I was wondering how I'd shoot the desperados who were certain to accost me out in the Texas badlands now.  Luckily I made it out of the state without being held up by a posse.

hblair, alot of the info posted here has been pretty good.  The best advice you've gotten though, is to make your own decision.  Find a gun that you like the feel of.  If you don't like handeling it, you're not likley to practice with it.  If you don't practice with it, you're not going to be able to use it competently when you need it.  If you can't use it competently, you're gonna be as much danger to yourself or your family as you may be to any intruder.

It would also help us to know what you really plan on doing with the gun.  Is it going to be a home defense item?  Will it be mostly just a target shooting thing?  Are you going to carry it?  How big are you?  Will the lady of the house be shooting it?  

Several of the gun shops in my area let you rent a gun for use on their range.  This is a great way to get a feel for many of the different choices available.  I'd suggest searching out a couple shops and seeing what they've got for you to handle.

D

Offline Saurdaukar

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Gonna buy a handgun
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2002, 05:09:43 PM »
I wrote that the Ruger P90 series was the Z06 of handguns.  =)  The logic behind it is - "best bang for the buck."  Cheap and effective, but not the best.  (Enter, Merc-Benz, Sig - Porsche, HK, etc etc).  

Funny post about the Texas cop.  :P  Had I pulled that here in Pa I would have been dragged out of my car at gunpoint.  In Pa it is a little known fact that an illegal handgun will get you 10 years... end of story - you bargin from there.  By illegal, I mean gun not stowed properly, ammunition seperated, etc.  Those of us right wing fanatical, skin head, KKK, desperado, vigilante, militia members (read, liberal humor) that have carry permits dont have to worry about such trivial things, however.  :P