Tunisia This Friday!

[Wotan]

samething I found ammo read your second quote I think I see something about malta.....or your first theres something about gibraltar

malta sicily crete all had sorts of planes and squadrons that flew sorties over north afrika.

the 190a5 was in North african bases and it as much a substitute for the other types of 190s (a3 and a4) that were there as is the p51 or 38. However the performance differences arent as great as they are between an a36 and p51b or a p38f and a p38l.

The spit ix hasnt been proven to have been stationed in NA. Come up with 1 spit ix at 1 base and brady would add it.

He made add it anyway and I could careless.

Again were are talking feb to april North africa

we dont need a 205 as a counter however I know a few folks who would fly it.

[-ammo-]

wotan--

Why would brady add it if I could prove that a spit9 squad was based in NA?  

What I am getting at is he based the pony and the P-38L but in limited bases. While the A36 might have been there ( I would like to see that reference too), the P-51B is a much diferent AC. The same for the P-38L.  We have evidence that the spit9 was in theatre, moreso than we have evidence that the mossie and the p-51B. and the P-38L. I am saying this--its not that its absent because of its rarity in the theatre, its absence is because of its great performance.  He doesnt want to piss off the folks that fly the 190's and the 109's. That is the way I read it anyway.

[Wotan]

the p38 and p51 are a gameplay concession fer you allied types. by limiting them up north and at a few bases he was able to do that with little inbalance.

Spit ix wouldn't unbalance anything. But on the otherhand where we have a reasonable historical evidence for a given plane type we should use them. Spit v was "the" spit for feb april 1943. And it is in this set up.

The spit ix even by the quote you sited

"gibraltar.....6 months later it had the highest kill count" and "later in the year they were re-eqipped with spit ixs and moved to malta"  was not stationed in NA.

If you are then saying that since we made the exception with the p51b and p38l then why not a spit ix... well then why not a g10 or d9 or 152. Theres a limit somewhere.

The axis having a5s in unlimited numbers is off set by the allowance of the p51b and p38l. The spit ix would just be giving the allies on more concession then necessary even though I believe its impact would be limited. It would most likely be stuck at 1 base in a corner somewhere. After all even if 1 squadron had them flying from malta their impact in rl feb april 1943 was minimal.

the difference in performance between an a3 and a4 isnt that great to make a fuss about imho.

So clearly the allies have the benefits of the "gameplay concessions". Do you really need another? Clearly we need more planes a p40 in particular since it was used by both us and raf. But the current set up is competive and balanced. Unlike the pac set ups or the eastern front set ups where again the bulk of gameplay concessions are on behalf of the allies. A spit v is a capable aircraft. At 15k it will give an a5 a good run.

This is the one setup (along with bob) where parity is the closest.

I have a higher k/d vrs spit ixs then spits 5s and they really dont bother me either way. And if brady was really concerned about lwhiners then his new worry would be the allied whiners who already have the benefit of the majority of gameplay concessions.

Besides that he already explained his descision further up in this thread.


EDIT

Why would brady add it if I could prove that a spit9 squad was based in NA?

because he said he would. if that aint good enough for you ask him yourself.

[Wotan]

oops a36

Michael Russo of the 522nd FBS/27th FBG/12th AF based in Tunisia scored five kills in his A-36A. He got a Fw 190, two Me 109's, a Ju 52 and a Fiesler Storch

havent really looked hard but it seems a36 was delivered in march 43 and didnt see action until afet the axis surrendered in tunisia. I have read where it first saw service in pant......

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Wotan



the p38 and p51 are a gameplay concession fer you allied types. by limiting them up north and at a few bases he was able to do that with little inbalance.

Spit ix wouldn't unbalance anything. But on the otherhand where we have a reasonable historical evidence for a given plane type we should use them. Spit v was "the" spit for feb april 1943. And it is in this set up.

The spit ix even by the quote you sited

"gibraltar.....6 months later it had the highest kill count" and "later in the year they were re-eqipped with spit ixs and moved to malta"  was not stationed in NA.

If you are then saying that since we made the exception with the p51b and p38l then why not a spit ix... well then why not a g10 or d9 or 152. Theres a limit somewhere.

The axis having a5s in unlimited numbers is off set by the allowance of the p51b and p38l. The spit ix would just be giving the allies on more concession then necessary even though I believe its impact would be limited. It would most likely be stuck at 1 base in a corner somewhere. After all even if 1 squadron had them flying from malta their impact in rl feb april 1943 was minimal.

the difference in performance between an a3 and a4 isnt that great to make a fuss about imho.

So clearly the allies have the benefits of the "gameplay concessions". Do you really need another? Clearly we need more planes a p40 in particular since it was used by both us and raf. But the current set up is competive and balanced. Unlike the pac set ups or the eastern front set ups where again the bulk of gameplay concessions are on behalf of the allies. A spit v is a capable aircraft. At 15k it will give an a5 a good run.

This is the one setup (along with bob) where parity is the closest.

I have a higher k/d vrs spit ixs then spits 5s and they really dont bother me either way. And if brady was really concerned about lwhiners then his new worry would be the allied whiners who already have the benefit of the majority of gameplay concessions.

Besides that he already explained his descision further up in this thread.


EDIT



because he said he would. if that aint good enough for you ask him yourself.
 

first, Brady frequents this board, he is welcome to chime in.

second, you are full of kaka

wotan is 11-1 against the spit5, and 11-5 against the spit9, so you are incorrect on that. It seems that the added performance of the spit9 does give you more trouble than the 5, however you are doing OK any way.  

Your logic is flawed.  Now I dont really care that the  spit9 is not enabled, but now, for the sake of raising the BS flag, I argue with you. You are trying to tell me that the omission of the Spit9 is based on lack of evidence that it was in NA. I say that is not the reason ot was left out. It was left out to appease the LW types, like you.  (probably moreso to see extended use of the lesser models, if the spit9 is enabled, they will be everywhere, and there will be much whining from ...the axis side) Whatever, I shoot down all of them and I have fun doing it. I have flown LW for several hours this setup, and enjoyed it alot!

Buzz says this...

There may have been a few Mk IX's, but they were in the distinct minority. By far the largest number of Med Spits were Spit V's, including those serving with the USAAF.

Even into late '43, the Brits tended to upgrade the engines in the Spit V's to LF model rather than replace them with IX's. And in '44 the V's were replaced with VIII's in the Med.

If IX's are in the setup, they should be a 3 point perk in my opinion.

and this...

At the altitudes which most battles are being fought in this arena, (1000-5000 ft) the best plane is the 190A5. It has one of the best climbs of any aircraft, (the G2 may be a little better) deadly guns, great roll rate, excellent instantaneous turn rate, and quite a decent sustained turn rate with WEP. Plus it is much faster than anything except the P-38L and P-51b.

Used in pairs, the 190 is basically unbeatable.

And no one seems to be flying the two U.S. planes much.

Personally I think the P-51 should be eliminated, but the P-38L isn`t imbalancing enough to be a problem. It may climb better than the P-38F, but turnrate is probably worse.

I agree with him, he is telling the truth. The 190A5 is 30 MPH faster than the spit 5, and outpaces the hurri by even further. And it is unlimited. So therein lies the advantage the LW have. NP, I still shot you down yesterday without a problem. However I was in a P-51B:)

Oh.. and here is a source about the spit9 being in NA--

1943 - THE TIDE TURNS
The Poles attached to No 145 Squadron with Spitfire Mk IXs shot down more enemy aircraft in the first two months of 1943 than any other Polish unit in the whole year. In February, No 72 Squadron arrived North Africa with Mk IXs.

http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/spitfire/tide_trn.htm

[brady]

With all do respect to my learned brethern...yawn....

   I said why the spit 9 was left out way up their somewhere, I said what I ment I endevore to do what I say:) I have found no defenitive evedance that the Spit 9's were in Tunisia proper, that is why they are not in the plane set, that is why the 205 is not in the plane set. Personaly I find the Spit V a more dangeriuos apponet than the Spit 9, I certanialy did not do as you sugest ammo.

  Gentailmen this set up will only run till sometime on Friday, that is very near indead at this point, why don't we just kick back and rest up for the debate that will insue over that plane set:)

  Tunisia will be back I am shure, undoubtedaly one of my comrads on the CT Staff will do the next plane set for it, hide and watch:)

 BTW the reasion I like this so much (one of them) is that it is a learning experance for me, I get to learn more about the perioud in history I love the most, it is despite appearences to the contrary at times great fun:)

[Wotan]

Ammo I have that very link plus several other spit web sites on my website

links

no 72 squad operated out of gibraltar then malta they flew sorties over north africa but were not based there. It was 1 squadron. We dont have the base it operated from so if it were to be enabled it would need to be at a base it the upper nw corner.

tour 26

Wotan has 19 kills and has been killed 6 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.

Wotan has 8 kills and has been killed 6 times against the Spitfire V.

tour 25

Wotan has 21 kills and has been killed 1 time against the Spitfire Mk IX.


Wotan has 16 kills and has been killed 1 time against the Spitfire V.

I could care less about any spit. and I am at best a mediocre virtual pilot.


fw190

the 190a3 190a4 were both there in numbers more a4s then threes. go to the site there and read the difference in the a4 a5. they use the same eng. So was the 190f-2. So to say the a5 is unbalancing is pointless when the a4 had similar performance and was used on a large scale. Also  ofcourse  the spit v was slower then the a4 and a5 thats why they developed the spit ix.

Also your quote

The Poles attached to No 145 Squadron with Spitfire Mk IXs shot down more enemy aircraft in the first two months of 1943 than any other Polish unit in the whole year.

doesn't refer to spit ixs in afrika alone but in every theater during the early months of 1943.

so

In February, No 72 Squadron arrived in North Africa with Mk IXs.

so this 1 squadron stationed in gibraltar

Although the bulk of Spitfires supplied to Africa in the initial months of the war were predominantly Mark Vs, in February 1943 No 72 Squadron was re-equipped with Mark IXs from Gibraltar, and within six months became the highest-scoring unit.

and transfered to malta with spit ixs

In September 1942, the Squadron moved to North Africa to support the Tunisian campaign before moving on to Malta the following year with the updated Spitfire IX.

No where have you produced anything that we already dont know. Or have you shown where spit ixs were stationed in North Afrika. As I stated before there were planes stationed through out the med on all sides that flew sorties over north afrika. The spit ixs  contribution was minimal. We dont have any bases other then those in tunisia. Where do you suppose we put spit ixs? everywhere?

The allies have the bulk of the gameplay concessions they are not short changed at all.

Brady has stated why he set up up the ct like this. No matter how you think lwhining had to do with it is bs. Thats just the same trump card you allied whiners through out to mask your own

fyi

You have never seen me make a post about this plane or that plane whine whine whine never.  I never whined about the d11 or the 110g2 I never hijacked a thread  to suit my own bias about what plane is needed where. So the lwhiner card your pulling must be to address someone else.

I dont care about the 51s the 38s or a spit ix. We know no 72 squadron had spit ixs in 1943. it appears at malta. But just show where in north afrika they were based brady will add it.

During the invasion of sicily and italy spit ixs certainly were there in numbers in this portion of 1943. Every quote or link you have posted everyone of us who took time to check found the same thing.

Brady has said he would enable it if you can show where in North Afrika it was stationed.

[-ammo-]

So all the AC in the current setup were stationed in the county of "tunisia"? Well, except for the *concessions* that you *gave* the allies?  .

However, the spit9, which we have evidence that participated in the NA campaign (which is what wotans words were, "The spit ix hasnt been proven to have been stationed in NA. Come up with 1 spit ix at 1 base and brady would add it. ") Of coarse, you revised your position in later posts.

It was left out, cool. Dont tell me it was because of historical reasons, when that just isnt the case. It was left out for other reasons...already alluded too.


your learned brethern

[-ammo-]

ps. check funkedup's post "brady"

TY

[brady]

I did, it will be done, I only wish I had that info earler in the week, I do appoligise, my refrences libary is sorly lacking a good spitfire book, I am going to rectify that this weekend, also geting a good boston and wildcat book too:)

[-ammo-]

ty and

great time to fly in the CT:)