f6-5 Vs Spit 9

[Fowler]

Ok My Buddy continually shoots me down in Head to Head when we are practicing ACM offline.  He takes the spit 9, I take the hell cat.  It is usually Co-e. He always tries to go HO then he starts to turn fight me and gets on my Six if i dive away it seems like he catches me or if not i have to turn around which usually results in another HO pass.  I want to cool his cocky additude,
Is there anything that i could try agains him?


thanks
Fowler

[popeye]

Check these links:

http://home.attbi.com/~alemanymathman/hellcat.htm

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51005

[gofaster]

Check out the write-up on http://www.netaces.org that talks about flying both the Spitfire IX and the F6F Hellcat.  Know your enemy as well as you know yourself and you should be able to defeat him.  

[Lephturn]

Honestly, you really can't expect to beat a Spit IX with a Hellcat in a co-alt 1v1.  The two planes are similar in many ways, but the Spit has the edge in most of the ways that count.  In order to expect to win, you need to start with an advantage.  The Hellcat excells as an energy fighter, but it really needs an E advantage to start with.  Planes like this don't normally fare too well in co-alt 1v1 duels, but can be very successful in arena combat.

That said... what can you do to increase your chances?  Well, you said he goes for the HO?  Does he shoot at you?  If so, you can use that.  You should be trying to merge slightly below his nose and a bit to the side.  You can roll a bit to avoid the HO shot, then pull a vertical lead turn before you pass him, start about D400 or so.  If he tries for the shot, you will get an angles and energy advantage since he will still be flying straight and shooting while you are already starting your vertical lead turn.  He'll also overshoot your flightpath below before he starts to turn, handing you even more of an advantage.  At this point you want a maximum performance turn and get a shot RIGHT NOW.  The longer you wait to kill him, the more the odds turn in his favour.

[Fowler]

He Always tries to either go ho with bursts of guns on the way by. I usually dive hard and blow past him so getting a guns solution on me on the first pass is very difficult for him.  He then slows down and turns right and follows me into the dive.
Im unsure about this rolling by him on a head on, sounds kind of dangerous.  So should i try to be below his nose and at 300 start to turn hard to gain a initial turning advantage on him?
I set my convergence for 250 because i want the initial shot to hurt when it hits him so im trying to get in close.

This guy is my sons godfather a really good friend and he has a huge attitude, i can shoot him down everytime when i take the spit but i really want to wax him in the Kitty. since he thinks the spit 9 is god... which it is a pretty hardcore ride, but his ego is starting to get bigger than the plane..

[batdog]

If you dive your screwing yourself right away. DO a lead turn like Lepth said... 400-500 out. Use your flaps ( I assume you are) and also maybe some heavy nose up trim till you get a 6 shot. When your vertical w/him (stay vertical) cut your throttle some when going down and rev it on the way up. Odds are he's going full throttle all the time... you prob get inside him..he'll freak and then he'll die.


Good luck

xBAT

[H. Godwineson]

Fowler,

Before I begin, let me issue a disclaimer.  I have not yet flown in the Main Arena.  Hope to before long.  Lack of money at the present time.  However,  I have been flying H2H for about 6 months or so, trying to learn the game and the performances of each aircraft.

I have read everything of Mathman's that I could find on the net, plus any other information about fighting with the F6F that I could locate.  I have the same problem trying to HO the Spit that you do.  They outgun you and can outrun you and outturn you at low speeds.  They hold all the aces.  

But not if you can get them flying fast enough.  As Mathman states, between 250 and 300 mph the Hellcat outturns almost every plane in the game.  Co-energy is difficult but not impossible, depending on how savy your opponent is.

Deny him the HO if possible, jinking to make him miss.  Once you merge, the average Spit pilot is going to haul his mount into a high-g turn to try to get on your six.  Don't try to turn with him at this point.  Unload the g's off your aircraft, hit WEP and put your nose down.   Accelerate to 250 mph, or better yet 300 mph.  He will have to fly faster than you to catch you, which is what you want him to do.  Watch him.  When he has closed the distance to about 1800 to 1900 pull into a high-g, slightly nose-down turn into him.  If you do this right, You'll be able to outturn him just long enough to pull lead for a deflection shot.  Nothing will blow his cool faster than being "outturned" in his Spit and taking hits.

If you fail to kill him on this pass, unload put your nose down and accelerate back up to 250 mph or faster.  Repeat the above maneuver.  Don't drop more than one notch of flaps if you feel you need to use them,  otherwise they'll cause you to flow too much speed.

I've been using this maneuver a lot lately because it works for me.

Hope it does for you!  Let me know how you make out against your buddy!

Regards, Shuckins

[phentop]

Good tips in these posts. I'm kinda confused about the
use of flaps that were mentioned. I havn't been able to use my flaps until i'm under 100 speed. Normally when I'm about to land.
Is their a trick to get the flaps to work in fight?I use Q and W
on my landing to slow down , but like I mentioned they only will
start working when im at that slow speed..

I keep seeing post of people going into a turn and using flaps to
tighten the turn but I can hit the Q and W all night and mine wont
raise or lower in flight...

Brown

[Fowler]

ok Can someone explain the Vertical Lead turn in more Detail im kind of new to the lingo...

[HFMudd]

Have you tried to rope him?  Give this a try: Turn to the right during the HO just enough so that he has a bit of a deflection shot and so that he passes you off your left wing.  Once past him, begin an gentle climbing turn to the left while keeping an eye on him.  He will probably make a very hard turn to his left to attempt to get angles on you which will burn a lot of his speed and then he will burn some more once he sees you are climbing.  At this point, because you did the gentle turn while he pulled it hard, you should have both a speed and an altitude advantage.  If so, do it again and get him to burn more of his E.  After a couple times his wings will wobble and you can begin an attack pass.

I was taught this very recently in the CT for flying 190A-5's against Spit V's.  Here the 190 has the addition advantage of turning the left because of the direction of prop rotation.  The Spit's prop turns the opposite direction.  I don't know which way the F6F's prop turns but you should still see and advantage from the gentle climbing turn vs. his hard turn.

[Soda]

Vertical Lead Turn.  The Lead Turn is basically a maneuver where you try and start your turn before the merge thus start to get an angles advantage.  Since this is a vertical one, you would want to dive and try to get under his nose where he can't see you, then pull up into the vertical and come from under him.  If he sees this situation starting to develop he will typically dive with you to pick up speed and keep you in view so it won't work.

If he doesn't follow your shallow dive (you manage to get under his nose before you pull up) then you have the option to try and belly shot from underneath, or, if is likely, he goes vertical, you probably should have enough speed to come up at the same time and chase him vertical and get behind him.  You would then have a brief shot at him from behind.

I know I have a E maneuvering Doghouse Diagram somewhere showing the F6F vs SpiIX, if I can find it I'll post it to help.

-Soda
The Assassins.

[Lephturn]

The spit's tendancy to keep E and speed is all the more reason why you want to try the vertical lead turn.  Basically, you want to be a few hundred yards below him just before you merge.  This does two things... first it forces him to dive gently if he wants a level merge to prevent you from gaining angles, and second it gets his speed higher.  At about D 1.4 or so roll to one side or the other and use a gentle pull to avoid his HO.  I know it doesn't look right, but because of net lag this is when you want to jink.  Then as the range closes past 500, pull up hard into an immelman, as hard as you possibly can.  The Kitty will turn very well here, as you should be easily over 250 Mph at this point.  The Spit will carry more speed in the turn and should have a larger turn radius.   You should get a shot as you come around... don't miss.  Depending on the situation (if you have the speed and if you have the advantage), you may go back up into the second immelman and pop flaps to try and get him.  Drop one notch of flaps below about 200.  The Hellcat has combat flaps, so you can drop between 1 and 5 different notches of flaps depending on speed.  Normally 1 below 200 and 2 below 275... but that's only if you need it to get that last bit of turn for a shot.  Beware that dropping flaps will increase your drag and slow you down... your losing the E battle if you do.  However, flaps can help you burn that E for a shot... just make it count.  If you miss at the top of the second immelman, RUN.   Reel in everything and 0-G dive out of dodge.  No Spitball will hang with a Hellcat in an unloaded dive, but be sure to get as much separation as possible before you bug out.  Then try Shuckin's move once you get the separation.

DO NOT try to rope-a-dope a Spit with a Hellcat from a co-E merge.  You'll die.  Trust me.  Sorry Mudd, the airplane comparisons between the FW vs. Spit V and the Hellcat vs. Spit IX matchups just are not even close.  It will work in an FW vs. a Spit V if you have enough of an E advantage... but you can't apply that to a different situation entirely.

[Fowler]

roll to one side or the other and use a gentle pull to avoid his HO

Then as the range closes past 500, pull up hard into an immelman


Ok i understand ill practice this move, But do i want to still be banking when i pull into the Immelman or do i want to straighten out and then pull into it...

[Lephturn]

You want to do the quick roll and gentle pull at about D 1.4k just to spoil his HO shot, and then straighten up... mostly.  Ideally you want to be slightly below his nose and a bit to one side as you merge.  Also, I almost never go exactly straight up... I put a bit of oblique into it.  Mostly this is just to keep him guessing a bit and not be predictable, but it's a good habit to get into in the MA in case somebody is BnZing you and you haven't spotted them yet.  It makes you a bit unpredictable.  Basically just roll to the angle you want to pull, say 10 degrees off of level, before you pull.  That way you don't do a perfect immelman and you won't quite be where he expects you to be at the top hopefully.

Also note.  If you are in the MA and your opponent does this to you... you are fighting a good pilot.  Be wary.  I know I'm up against a good stick when he dives to match me and doesn't let me get much separation to lead turn him.  If the other guy actually tries to shoot you, instead letting you get separation for a lead turn and delaying his turn, he's a rookie and will soon die if you fly it right.

[Gryffin]

Soda,

Are the diagrams in this article the ones you are thinking of?

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/energymgmt/