Winning Head-on's w/ 6 50cal's

[28sweep]

I like my F6f a lot and find myself in a lot of head-on's.  I have been trying to avoid them as much as possible but sometimes I don't have the E to avoid it.  How can u hold u're own against a cannon equipped fighter?

[Xjazz]

Aim fast & well, shoot firts & shortly and pull up before merge.

[Tac]

Fire at d1.1 like mad at them and break off at d500 HARD to wherever their underbelly is pointing (very hard to hit a plane if you firing while pulling neg g's.. gunnery is screwy).


If you dont hit him or make him break off at long range, you dead.

[SlapShot]

I am having a hard time understanding your situation and how 'E' is a determining factor on whether you are going to HO or not going to HO.

If you are co-alt then you want to drop your nose and get under on the merge regardless of the 'E' state (at least I do).

If your opponent is higher and dropping on you then there is no HO, unless you pull up into his dive and at this point you are not avoiding it, but rather initiating it.

If you opponent is lower than you and they are pulling up into you, there still is no HO, unless you drop down into his climb and at this point you are not avoiding it, but rather initiating it.

The only time you can get in an HO is when YOU point your nose directly at the opponents nose.

If I am in a HellCat and want to stay with the HO, I get the plane real steady and make sure that they are dead center of the pipper. I wait until they are at least D1.2 to D1.1 out and then let 'em rip for a 1 to 2 sec burst and then dive to avoid any type of collision.

My thinking is that D1.2 to D1.1 shooting solution on a bandit's 6 is a waste of ammo, both projectiles travelling in the same direction, if a round were to hit, it would really do no damage.

Now if two projectiles are closing in opposite directions (really fast), well now those .50s are gonna hurt. The opposing plane is flying HO into a pretty good stream of lead.

I try to avoid all HOs but sometimes you gotta do it and I find that most pilots when faced in an HO are thinking a shooting solution for the 6 and not the 12, so they wait until 500 or less before shooting and at that point they have already been introduced to my .50s

[BGBMAW]

yes exactly..u shooting  at 1.1k away is closing very fast..then break away right after shots.....dont wait till 5-600 ft ......dam ...who you fly for..if not knights then nevermind what i said....lolollo
BGBMAW....................... ..1st Marine Air Wing

[Lephturn]

I never take HO shots with my Jug... well almost never.  My reasoning is that I like to rely on snapshots quite a bit and in order for them to work I need my convergence in close.  Like 300 or less for all guns.  If you really want to win HO's in a .50 armed plane, simply set your convergence out to the max and practice those long range shots.  The .50's are probably the best guns in the game for actually hitting at these ranges.  Then try firing at 1.4k or so down to about 1k-800 and then break hard.

Still, your far better off to simply lead turn the other guy and kill him in my book.

[SKurj]

if i am at <100mph at the top of a rope and the badguy just keeps comin up of course I have very little choice but to HO.  Just start spraying +)


SKurj

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by SKurj
if i am at <100mph at the top of a rope and the badguy just keeps comin up of course I have very little choice but to HO.  Just start spraying +)


SKurj

Exactly, and the worst thing about that is, the one MAJOR gripe I've had about HTC since day one, the guy who hits the ground first/or hits the chute first does NOT get the kill, even though both are dead...it SHOULD be like WB's, where BOTH get awarded a kill.  If you're in a heavier plane and you go at each other level HO, and both of you lose your wings, its going to be the heavier A/C that does NOT get the kill since he'll hit the ground first.

[Boozer]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


 its going to be the heavier A/C that does NOT get the kill since he'll hit the ground first.

 Riphysics

[Hortlund]

Actually this is an interesting subject, and I would really like to hear what you have to say about "my" tactic.

I have two basic "tactics" on the head to head merge. Either I take the shot, or I avoid the shot.

When I approach someone head to head, I always hit wep and nose down when he is about D3.0 out. This is my standard move. I then watch him to see his reaction to this. In 7 times out of 10, he will manuver towards me to get a HO shot.

This is good.

When he is about D1.5 out and manuvering to get a shot on me, I start to pull back as hard as possible. What I'm doing here is starting an Immelmann. He on the other hand is still manuvering to get a shot in on me. That means that on the merge, I am nose up, gaining altitude, and losing speed at the start of an Immelmann, while he is nose down loosing altitude and gaining speed.

This situation almost always ends up with me being D1.5 above and behind him. He is faster than me, but I have alt on him, and Im on his 6, or at least in his rear quarter. Often he will be in a flat turn trying to reverse towards me. In that case he is burning all the E he got when diving towards me on the merge. Which is good.

This situation almost always ends with me getting a snapshot opportunity on him. I will have plenty of time to set it up and judge angles and speed, IMO it is a good shooting opportunity.

If he doesnt go for the HO shot on the other hand, but instead start manuvering before the merge. I often go for the HO myself. The difference is that I will be nose up on the merge, and I'm just squeezing off a salvo hoping for a lucky hit. I miss more often than I hit, but it doesnt really bother me that much.

What is important though, is that I always want to be nose up when we pass.  

Is this a good or bad tactic?
(Oh, and I always fly 190D9s or 190a5s)

[Lephturn]

Pulling up that early can get you killed if you are not careful.  If you start pulling up at D1.5k, I'm simply going to follow you and blow you away.  By simply pulling up in front of me, as long as I am smart enough to follow with a bit of lag pursuit, I should nail you easily.  If you are pulling back as hard as possible, I will be transitioning a bit more gently and maintaining more E.  If the E states were equal going in, I'm going to be in your rear hemisphere with more E and likely a shot opportunity.  But really, this just all comes down to when you pull up.  If the closure rate is high enough, with lag you might get away with starting your pull that early, but you'll need to be careful.  If the other guy starts his early as well, he's just going to pull onto your six easily.

Now about you taking a front quarter shot pre-merge.  If you merge with a good pilot, he'll be manuevering below your nose and a bit to one side.  The only way for you to get a shot on him at that point will be to point nose-low, which will mean you give up some E and angle to do so.  While your pointing nose-low for a shot, a good pilot will have jinked and started an oblique vertical lead turn.  By virtue of pointing your nose low at him long enough to fire, you will give up a bit of E and angle.

But fundamentally, yes, you always want to be headed up at the merge, not down.  Versus a good opponent, you'll have to sacrifice that to get a shot opportunity.

[Hortlund]

Hm, perhaps I didnt describe the situation properly. It has never happened that the bandit pulled up after me.

In the situation I'm describing, I'm lower than the bandit (after my initial nose down + WEP) at around D1.5 I stop diving. Up to this point, I have been racing him towards the deck, because I always want to be lower than him when we meet. At D1.5 I start to pull up, into the bandit. I keep my flightpath below his aircraft though. At this point I can almost feel his sights all over my fighter. I never pull up in front of him. That would be suicide. But I have started to pull up when we meet, but I cross his flightpath after he has passed me.

Eh, I hope I'm making sence here.  

That low nose front quarter you describe is the one I never take, because that will leave me nose down on the merge. And I really want to avoid that.

[Eaglecz]

try to not be in that situation

[Lephturn]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Hm, perhaps I didnt describe the situation properly. It has never happened that the bandit pulled up after me.

Ok, well that was a mis-understanding then.  When you said "pull up", I thought you were pulling up hard at D1.5.  If you did that, you would pull up in front of the bandit.

Originally posted by Hortlund
In the situation I'm describing, I'm lower than the bandit (after my initial nose down + WEP) at around D1.5 I stop diving. Up to this point, I have been racing him towards the deck, because I always want to be lower than him when we meet. At D1.5 I start to pull up, into the bandit. I keep my flightpath below his aircraft though. At this point I can almost feel his sights all over my fighter. I never pull up in front of him. That would be suicide. But I have started to pull up when we meet, but I cross his flightpath after he has passed me.

Eh, I hope I'm making sence here.  

That low nose front quarter you describe is the one I never take, because that will leave me nose down on the merge. And I really want to avoid that.

Rgr, your tactics are sound.  Yep, you always want to be nose-up on the merge, and you want to force the other guy to merge nose-down if he wants to take a HO shot.

One thing to be aware of is your speed.  If you both dive for the merge, you can get going too fast depending on your starting speed and your aircraft.  Sometimes chopping throttle in that dive to stay within a certain speed range can help you turn much tighter to win the merge.  If you are both co-E going in, a pure E merge at too high a speed, say 400+, you won't turn very fast.  You can possibly gain a large advantage by slowing down a bit in the dive to get a smaller turn radius for a quick kill.

[vorticon]

i get into alot of HO's and i sometimes force them i simply pretend to be dooing other things pop up in front at about 1k and start fireing E is not that much of adetermining factor its you aim. you go in shoot as much as possible then try to get the H* outta the way at about D500 and with luck you will win (note in HO's 90% of the time both people get blasted then its whoever hits the ground or ejects first who loses.