Ok...here we go again

[gatt]

I hope HTC will look into it, indeed. I'm use to fire at d2-d4, like in WarBirds.

Yesterday I got hit from 1,600yds by a B-26 while I was maneuvering at his 4-5 o'clock(1,200yds on his FE, he told me). And from 1,200yds (maybe 800-1,000yds on his FE) by a F4U-1C, while I was flying level (my fault).

No, this is not the way I like to dogfight. Definitely.

Gatt
4^Stormo CT

[AKDejaVu]

I have a video of me closing in on a spit.  We had both just come out of a dive and I was 2k back.  He banked to try to track another con and I closed to 900 yards.  I fired off a voley into his left wing and was rewarded with 6 pings.  The wing stayed attatched.  The pilot reacted badly and jerked the controls.  As a result I was at 400 yards and picking every piece off his plane quickly.

I would have loved for the 1k kill at that time.  But.. I was rewarded with what I find usally happens at 1k.. a few pings (with no damage) then a bad reaction.

I've definately noticed the change in the cannon damage model.  Anything over 700 yards is much tougher to kill.  Almost as if I were firing 6 .50's at the target.

AKDejaVu

[Pongo]

The 190 A8 was not armoured to withstand 50 cal from most angles. It has armour rangin from 12mm behind head to 5mm an rear sides of cockpit. It probably has little more armour on it than a p51. If the bad guy had a long convergence set on his 20mm then he might have hit you with quite a few rounds even at 1.2 The hisp. cannon definatly seems to benifite from lack of atmoshperic conditions in the game though.  3/4 of a mile... wow. The minute dispersions caused by the wind and humidity and barrel warp and other small factors would render the weapon usless at that range.  It shows up in the game for the M2 only because it is one of the few weapons thats ballistics tables indicate is should be able to hit and hurt at that range. In real life I doubt it was any more effective than the 151 but here it is unfetered by atmosphere. It is a very tough problem to solve. We dont want the gunfire arbitrarliy limited to what we see as reasonable. In strafing and against other stationary targets the M2 should be more potent then the other 20mm in the game. But it should have .002 chance of killing a plane at 3/4 of a mile. Just the recoil of the guns would probebly make hitting nearly imposible at that range.
Oh well it is quite a rare occurance. But I treat all corairs withing 1.5 of me as in range....


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[RAM]

Pongo...In my FE I was on 1.8K...you'd have been confident too.
190A-8 had heavy armor in the after section,too, except the sturmgruppen's planes wich had nearly all armor on bows and little on back. (and 30mm guns, and a nasty tendence to ram the bombers   )

FUnked, I've revised the numbers on Hispano 20mm cannon and ur right, muzzle speed was the same as in 50 cals. Still the round was bigger and heavier and much more difficult to aim at long ranges than 50 cals. thats a fact.

AKDejavu. Maybe 20mm round damage was turned a bit down at long ranges. Well...but 1.8K in my FE 1.2K in his FE, one ping kaboom. If that is something to belief in, I'd better go and play Falcon 4.0

Mino: well its a good moment to say this. Twice last days( once in P38 and then in fw190), I've engaged bombers. I'll talk about last one because a lot of squaddies were there and saw it.

I came from avobe, and lateral. I fired and got pings on left wing with 20mms...nothing. I dived under the B26 and levelled 500 yds under him and a litle behind. Recovered speed and came up , burst again on left wing and some pings on fuselage. NOthing hapens. as I go up, the bomber has some pings on me. I roll the plane down and dive again. go down again 400 yds, the bomber still gets pings on me ...again I pop up, MORE PINGS on  fuselage, right wing,...NOTHING HAPPENS, nothing, no smoke no pieces falling, no control surfaces gone...

The bomber ripped my wing in that pop up.

After that a squaddie attacked it and it went kaboom with a single little bust.

weird isnt it?

BTW no bad connection, I tested with ping plotter and it was OK, no packet loss and 325ms ping time...(usual in my connection).
20mm full busts concentrated at less than 200 yds do nothing to the bomber...and 12.7 mm on my 190 rips my wing after a few pings...



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-27-2000).]

[fd ski]

Why is it that everyone thinks that 190 was such a fighter version of Sturmovnik ?
Last i checked it was relatively light aircraft - and yes, there were bomber killer versions but i believe that they had a different designation a8/u8 was it ?

Warbirds book has a interview with a canadian pilot who had something like 8 kills and he stated clearly that 190s were not hard to knock down at all...
he says that they went on fire after shot bursts of 303's - that combined with engine overheating problems... doesn't really make for flying tank, doesn it ?

I agree that shots over 1000 yards are silly and should stop - but don't expect to get hit with HS and have armor save you  


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

If nothing makes you happier then burning 109 - come and join us - we're looking for few good men

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[RAM]

190A-1 to 190A-7 series were relative lightweights. That why I insist HTC to get it into AH. 190A-8 was a HEAVILY armored plane, regardless the U-X or R-X versions.

The 190A-8 variant u name was prolly the plane used by sturmgruppen...had 30mm guns, twice the armor in the front and slightly less in the back as a A-8. The plane was to be put at less that 100 yds from B-17s, then if the B17 stayed airborne, the pilot would RAM the plane!...The armor was enough to stand 12.7mm MG rounds from 50yds from the front side...s u can bet the pilot was enuf secure!
of course the plane was like a 5 ton truck...didnt turn at all and had less climbrate than a goon.

The rest of the A-8 series had much less armor...but still MUCH more than A-5.
BTW, overheating problems were finally controlled in A-2.

Anyway I disagree about the one-ping-ded...but I disagree MUCH more about 20mm rounds hitting from 1200 yds!

[funked]

RAM - heavier is better for ballistics.  For a given size and shape of projectile, the heavier one will fly farther and drop less.

[RAM]

Cc...I understand that...but what about bigger?...bigger means more drag, and more dispersion, I believe. am I right?
(is an interesting matter, BTW)

[Lance]

 

I've beed killed more that 10 times this way ,and I've suffered serious damage a lot of times, also from extreme ranges...

Dunno, Ram, I've never been killed at a range beyond 1k, and I've flown this sim a lot.  Pings?  Yes.  Damage?  Very seldom.  Kill?  Never.

Gordo
FDB

[Fariz]

Little comment:

1) First ping was at 1.2k, second around 1k.

2) That is usual practise of forcing pilot to turn pinging him at maximum ranges. I have about 11% of accuracy in dogfights, that mean, I usually do not really opens up closer than at 300-400D, esp. when flying spit with its limmited ammo. But few tracers of mgs (or cannons on hog) is ok, sometime it works.

3) One very important comment: you did not blowed up. It was not an explosion. You just desappeared, same way it was in beta. So, that makes me to assume 2 possible reasons:

a) pilot death is modeled, and you were killed by one of the rounds. Not very possible, but it is what can happen and I am sure happened in the reality.

b)some kind of AH bug or network problem.

Hope, that will help.

Fariz

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by Pongo:
In real life I doubt it was any more effective than the 151 ...

Why?

[RAM]

 
<S> Fariz   ...lets see...

1) well on MA you told me range was 1.2K...1K is a bit less and then hit was a little more probable (but still VERY hard)...I still say that 1K hits must be less frequent.

2)CC that and thats why I was only in a VERY shallow turn to left, I couldnt accept any hard evasives because I had a lot of hungry red cons on my six, If I'd lost speed I'd had been ded. But the shallow bank and turn would've been enough...I see it wasnt   .

3) I think it must be a pilot death. I know it is modelled ,and I have no problems with that. I thought the plane exploded, but If it didnt then was a pilot death. Then everything I said about armor is useless (a 20mm exploding hit on cockpit kills an elephant).

<S> again, I know you are a hot-shot...but, still so many 1K yard deaths on MA...man...I cant believe in that...


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-27-2000).]

[Hristo]

I'd blame the icons and range indicators rather than the ballistics.

[Fariz]

 

Originally posted by RAM:

1) well on MA you told me range was 1.2K...1K is a bit less and then hit was a little more probable (but still VERY hard)...I still say that 1K hits must be less frequent.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-27-2000).]

Well, sorry for incomplete information, but was busy watching around for you friends   Still not sure about 1k, may be 1.1k, hard to say without film. I normally remember only distance when I opens up, it was 1.2k, and I remember that I made some pause before the second burst. Anyway, considering, that I had only 2 pings this kill was very unusual, and I understand how you feel about it.

Time to close the thread, IMO.

Fariz

[Citabria]

remove all range indications beyond 500 yards.

shots will be closer in for sure  

I think of how odd it is people complaining about how unrealistic shots fired at certain specific ranges are when the fact that a sign the size of a billboard is hanging above the target giving the shooter range and aiming and identification and closure information while the target gets peace of mind by being outside a certain indicated range.

no sir I dont like it.

icons fine, range info? no too much information and total lack of mystery hurting gameplay.


long range shots? no problem... they are realistic. but the digital fighter range and e state identification display has to go.


cheers




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CitabriAirbatiC

"There Is No Spoon"