Vulching Rampant in TA

[skipdallen]

I didn't express it well.

Require credit card info up front with the first month free and cancellable at any time.

I did that with Fighter Aces, and cancelled before I was charged.  No comparison with Air Warrior, because I started with AW when it was free on AOL.  I'd have given a credit card number to AH to try it.

Yes, it is a business decision.   Is the two week freebie worth the hassle to AH?  Lots of memberships to track.  Keeping repeaters from abusing the offer.  Responding to complaints from paying members.  So far it is.

Hopefully, the idea of granting trial memberships to people who can demonstrate the ability to pay (a credit card) will become more attractive.  

So, if you didn't sign with AH, where'd you be now?  WB or FA?  Who are you kidding?  


HONK!
Gooss

[rickod]

Just about the only thing that will fix the situation is to have trainers on hand possibly in an invisible mode who can watch not only the action but the private communication and check six call between players ,and has the power to boot abusive players

somewhere along the line it has become common practice to accept the check six as asking permission for a fight but it does not state this in the rules that are listed when you enter the arena
so in a basic scenario a noob comes on gets checked by a vulcher
said vulcher doesnt wait for any confirmation and blasts noob to dust

noob doesnt realise he is supposed to respond or not  and vulcher uses the check six as an excuse " i checked you there fore it was fair " yada yada  

one solution would be to lock people out of the training arena for 24hours upon being booted by a trainer

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Gooss I'd be probably at Castle Wolfenstein 2 demo or other similar free online multiplay. I have strong reservations about giving my creditcard info to a company I don't know and which locates overseas.

The totally restriction free 2-weeks was perfect for me, I could check the product out without giving any personal info whatsoever. If I didn't like it, forget it - no spam danger nothing.

However as you might concur the product appealed me and I became a paying customer after a period of (free) h2h playing.

Despite the imbalance and other whines I've made about MA, AH has been a worthwhile experience and good value for the money.

[SKurj]

skip i started AH and did not have a cc  I paid by money order...

as it is my cc (amex) isn't accepted in many online games so i don't play them....


SKurj

[Martlet]

Kerg's Best Vulchers are the biggest violators I have seen in TA, hence the nickname.  They are paying members, so removing the 2 week trial won't help.  I was vulched 4 times in a row on the runway by Buff59, so I finally went to MA on my second day because at least I could take off there.

[Citabria]

time to go kerg hunting in the ta

[Tac]

Hi hi, hi ho! a - dork hunting we go!!!

Count me in for the bashing cita!

[Jaekart]

Originally posted by skipdallen
Sounds like part of the "ganging" problem is that they're a "gang" or squad.  Don't allow squads to be formed in the TA.  

Make ack unkillable at some fields.  

Maybe re-think the two week free trial.  Require a credit card for a membership.  No charge if membership is cancelled within a month or two weeks if you insist.

Gooss

Why should a Squadron with a good reputable reputation be penalized from using the TA ??  We, the VF-27 "Hellcats", fly in the TA on Sunday Evenings, expressly for the purpose the TA was intended for.  We Practice Squadron Formations, Ground Strikes, Anti-shipping Attacks, Basic and Advanced ACM, and anything else that a Squadron Member has requested or reported a problem with being able to do, like getting a fully loaded F4U off a CV,
 
I agree, there have been problems with others from time to time, yet we normally inform them that We Are conducting TRAINING on the Text Buffer, and generally, get left alone.  For the ones that decide they HAVE to engage us, We either ignor their antics, or we swat them as they deserve.  (Even the jerks flying the Free Uber Planes get tired of getting ganged by 12 to 18 at a time. :-) )
If they ask us what we are doing, and seem interested, We even invite some of them to train with us.

Hopefully, skipdallen, you will see this as an informative reply to your post, and not as a flame.

By preventing Squads within the TA, we would lose our AHV Squad Channel for communication, we would lose the Squadron Icon Identifier, and generally just have a less productive Training session.  Should We Be penalized, as PAYING CUSTOMERS, simply because a few are abusing a system ??  I think not.

I totally agree with the idea that those caught ABUSING the system, need to have some form of punishment meted out to them, else they will only continue their unwanted and disruptive behavior.

Giving the "Official" Trainers, like GHOSTH, the ability to ban a player for a 24 hour period, in my own humble opinion, would not work or be a good Idea, as that only gives them a larger headache to contend with, as well as a lot of stress to overcome.

One of the reasons I left Aces High, was due to the flames and attacks constantly aimed at the "Game Moderators", most of whom were Highly Respected within the Game, that were given the "POWER" to eject or ban disruptive players.  Each time they were forced to utilize their "POWER", it was ALWAYS a case of "they caught me the one time I did something, but never did anything to the player that started it."  Guilty is Guilty.

I believe, as mentioned in a previous post, that an e-mail from HTC Admin, that {you} - (put whatever ID fits) have been reported as abusing the rules in the TA, would be productive.  That, combined with a warning as to further possible action from HTC Admin, (possibly being banned from the TA for a period of time), should become effective.  For those who simply will not adhere to or obey the rules, HTC in it's Stated Policies CAN AND SHOULD , with proof positive, cancel the disruptive players Subscription.

To Me, this is the only VIABLE solution.

All

[TruB0]

well if you notice the comment under rickod 2nd post, I do check 6 and get checked 6 and i fallow the rules. we dont have an admin on 24/7 so if im shot down by someone who didnt check 6 im gonna go shoot him down, thats it. If he continues to shoot other people down consistantly, i play air cop and make sure he doesnt get off the runway so at least other people can have a fun time.

I stay in TA cause its fun. There aint 200 people hittin your base at once and shootin ya down. You can choose to fly around or get into the heat of battle.

1) you cant limit how long or much someone stays in a certain arena. long as you dont break rules there aint a problem.

2) if im shot at/down im gonna get him back. that was a violation of the rules and uncalled for. if you ask im not rude to people unless they are vuclhin and not checkin 6.

3) it is a game and its suposed to be fun but with people disobeying the rules, you cant do much fun playing. you like change and if you and 3 people go to a different place it gets boring. Different people try different things and thats why if someone is breakin the rules we dont like movin to a different base.

4) so what if there are like 6 of us in a spot alot during TA. if you dont like it, what are you gonna do besides say "Why dont you go to MA."? Cry? I mean get real so we are in TA not like we are breakin the rules, get over it.

You only get vulched by about 5 people when you have provoked it. thats IMHO. I havet seen any of the people vulch you vulch anyone else UNLESS they were doing wrong. So you must have, in some way, deserved it.

Thats just my 2 cents, if you dont like it there are always other arena. we just choose to play in the TA because of longer battles instead of 2 shots and your dead.

-TruB0

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Trubo the training arena is not a place where you spend your time looking for newbies who'd provoke your attack.

It's not a place where a squad should spend its time primarily shooting people who are trying to learn the game down.

I can't see any other reason for a full squad to fly in the TA except to pick on the newbies who went to TA just to prevent that.

The TA mentality has turned into anarchy a long time ago. I've been there a few times with new pilots I've talked with in MA and chosen to go to TA to show some moves. Every time we've gone there the default field is a big furball with people vulching it either from air or using an ostie at the end of the runway.

One of the tards even followed us when we moved to a distant field to get some peace to practise. Fortunately he was smart enough to back off when I repeatedly threatened to report him to the HTC staff.

Anarchy in TA is nobody's advantage and brings bad image to the whole game if some responsible 2-weekers go there to practise in order to know their stuff in MA. This way they learn nothing but to pick on others and vulch the field like they were vulched.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by TruB0
if im shot down by someone who didnt check 6 im gonna go shoot him down, thats it. If he continues to shoot other people down consistantly, i play air cop and make sure he doesnt get off the runway so at least other people can have a fun time.

That is blatant abuse of the check6 command - it is not meant to be used to challenge someone to a fight... it is supposed to be a warning you send to a friendly that there is an enemy on their 6!  What sort of an impression is a new pilot going to get with this sort of treatment?  Are you trying to chase away new pilots by acting in this way, and most likely putting them off the game altogether?  You are NOT some kind of "air cop", and have absolutely no right to be acting in that way to other players.

I stay in TA cause its fun. There aint 200 people hittin your base at once and shootin ya down. You can choose to fly around or get into the heat of battle.

The TA is supposed to be an arena where players can undertake training either from an official Trainer or from another experienced player, or as a practice area for someone who just wants to get used to the flight models, etc.  It is not some kind of playground for a bunch of bullies!  You can just as well "fly around or get into the heat of battle" in the MA!

1) you cant limit how long or much someone stays in a certain arena. long as you dont break rules there aint a problem.

You are breaking the rules, though!  It clearly says on the Message of the Day window as you enter the arena that you are to ask permission before engaging another player - sending them a Check6 is not asking permission.

You only get vulched by about 5 people when you have provoked it. thats IMHO. I havet seen any of the people vulch you vulch anyone else UNLESS they were doing wrong. So you must have, in some way, deserved it.

Nobody deserves to be treated like that in the TA, and that is a disgusting attitude to have towards players who are just trying to learn the game.  If you really want to spend time in the TA, it should be to help these new players - by giving them advice on how to fly, and giving them a chance to even get off the ground... they have enough to cope with in learning to get off the ground without crashing, without some big bully thwarting their every attempt by vulching them.

we just choose to play in the TA because of longer battles instead of 2 shots and your dead.

Oh, I see.... spending a lot of time vulching new players amounts to a "longer battle" Of course, you are right.... if you tried that in the MA, it would not be long before someone shot you down, especially if you lack the skills to fight them on an even footing - with both of you in the air to start with!  Get real.... leave the Training Arena for new pilots to learn the game in peace and go to the MA for more challenging fights.

[SKurj]

hmm leave the TA guys alone +)

I spent an couple hours in there last night, and it was fun.

there was no channel 1 crap
no "winning" or losing really

Lots of room if ya needed some space to practice

I did step on one guys toes when i first got in there, but once i let them fire first all was well +)

Was kinda neat seeing perkrides fighting slow on the deck +)


SKurj

[Flossy]

Originally posted by SKurj
hmm leave the TA guys alone +)

LOL!  I usually do, but I am disturbed to think that potential new players are put off the game by this sort of behaviour... in fact I do know of some players I knew from a squad I was in in AW who were put off exactly because of what went on in the TA.  Fortunately, I was able to persuade them to give it another go, and they have since made great progress and have become regular players in the MA; however, I can't help wondering how many more players have completely given up because of it and gone to other sims like WarBirds or Fighter Aces...

[TruB0]

That is blatant abuse of the check6 command - it is not meant to be used to challenge someone to a fight... it is supposed to be a warning you send to a friendly that there is an enemy on their 6! What sort of an impression is a new pilot going to get with this sort of treatment? Are you trying to chase away new pilots by acting in this way, and most likely putting them off the game altogether? You are NOT some kind of "air cop", and have absolutely no right to be acting in that way to other players.

well if you read the rules you must check 6 before firing.

You are breaking the rules, though! It clearly says on the Message of the Day window as you enter the arena that you are to ask permission before engaging another player - sending them a Check6 is not asking permission.

yes thats true but IM not breaking the rules, and many others arnt so if you want to spend most of your time in TA so be it, as long as rules are fallowed.

Nobody deserves to be treated like that in the TA, and that is a disgusting attitude to have towards players who are just trying to learn the game. If you really want to spend time in the TA, it should be to help these new players - by giving them advice on how to fly, and giving them a chance to even get off the ground... they have enough to cope with in learning to get off the ground without crashing, without some big bully thwarting their every attempt by vulching them.

This only happends after about 30-50 times of them doing it. And after REPEATED attempts to get them to learn/understand its wrong.

Oh, I see.... spending a lot of time vulching new players amounts to a "longer battle"  Of course, you are right.... if you tried that in the MA, it would not be long before someone shot you down, especially if you lack the skills to fight them on an even footing - with both of you in the air to start with! Get real.... leave the Training Arena for new pilots to learn the game in peace and go to the MA for more challenging fights.

No its not fighting newbies and its not picking on them either. we simply fly for fun against each other or others. I dont check 6 or fight anyone unless they check me first or ask. THEN and ONLY then i engage them.



By the way, how are you to judge someone who pays to fly in the game. you fly the way you want, and I fly the way i want. Just because i choose TA over MA doesnt mean jack. and yes i do play in MA but i perfer TA.

And no its not a vulch fest every single day in there. Mostly like ghosth said its the new guys shootin people down who dont care. Subscribers like me and others dont care for it. And yes there are people who are subscribed and dont care what they do. I am not one of them. If you would like to "spy" on me or whatever feel free cause im not lyin. I fallow the rules, and try to keep it fun.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Clearly TA is not meant to be a relaxed realism arena for players like you. If you spend most of your time in TA fighting, it's no longer training. There is one thing however that would justify your being there..

Have you ever taken new pilots under your wing and started actually training them?