Author Topic: 109 G-6 is a porky pig  (Read 334 times)

Offline senna

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« on: May 28, 2002, 07:47:30 PM »
The 109 G-6 feels strange lately in my opinion. Feels like the nose has aquired alot of lead weights. How do I know , my F22 is making all sorts of rubber squeaks everytime I fly it, its wearing out my arms constantly pulling the nose up or keeping it where I want it to go. Instead of breaking my old F22 I've decided to stop flying this porky pig until things change. I've switched to the other 109s which still fly normal.

If there were changes made, please consider fix.

Thanks -- senna

Offline gatt

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2002, 12:47:40 AM »
Another strange thing is that the G-6 compresses when the G-2 is still well flyable :confused:.  Yes, dedicated G-6 pilots can do very well, however I consider the G-6 a real pig compared to all other DB605A engined fighters. Just MHO.

I'd like to see an MW50 G-6, the one with 1,800hp for take off and emergency ;)
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline AKSWulfe

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2002, 08:57:18 AM »
Uhm, guys.. the G6 was a dog IRL. Doesn't it have the same engine as the G2? With heavier weapons and more drag?

DB605A-1? If so, that would explain why it's not as good as the other planes.

The G series didn't pick up until G6/AS or G-10/G-14.
-SW

Offline Wmaker

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2002, 09:41:55 AM »
Well, definition dog is pretty subjective but basically if one thinks G-2 isn't a dog then G-6 ain't one either. Difference in weight according to Finnish Air Force is 120kg.

Full load of internal fuel weights approx. 400 litres * 0.7=280kg.

So G-6 with 60% of fuel weights the same as G-2 with 100%.

Numerous finnish aces like Kyösti Karhila have commented that there wasn't any noticable difference in manuverability between G-2 and G-6.

Yes, both variants in AH have the same engine, DB605A-1. In flight tests G-2 achieved figure around 640km/h at 1.3 ata, 2600rpm (1310ps). With the same power setting G-6 did about 620km/h. This was because of the drag caused by those mg bulges.

Compared to G-2 G-6 was a tad slower climber. Time to 3000m was 2.9min according to english flight tests with captured G-6. G-2 climbed to 3000m in 2.3min according to finnish flight test.

I won't comment on AH performance since I haven't done any testing with G-6. But G-2 feels fine to me and compared to it G-6 certainly isn't "porky pig".

"The G series didn't pick up until G6/AS or G-10/G-14."

Depends wheather you compare early G-6 to Sopwith Camel or F-16.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2002, 11:25:45 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline gatt

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2002, 11:11:13 AM »
Yep, our G-6 mounts the DB605A-1. The first one, the less powerful of all the DB605 mounted on the G-6s (maybe only the AS type at low altitude). AFAIK, from early-spring 1944 more powerful DB605s were mounted (the AM type for example), many of them with MW50. I really dunno why WB and AH have only the *very* early G-6. In AH it is not a real problem becouse we dont have an RPS (and we can use the G-10), however in WB it *was* a problem. Anyway, same doubt I have for the Spitfire MkIX. Why dont we have the much more representative LF type? :confused:
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Kratzer

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2002, 11:21:55 AM »
The G6 is my ride of choice (though after a month's break, I'm suckin' bellybutton in it this tour.)

I like the guns better than the G2, and I really feel like I can chuck the thing around in the 3 - 12K ft range...  The rudder control seems to be a lot more powerful than a lot of other rides, and is the key to the thing, it seems to me... of course, I could be completely imagining things.

Offline Don

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2002, 02:37:39 PM »
>>The G series didn't pick up until G6/AS or G-10/G-14. <<

The following is quoted from "An illustrated guide to World War II Fighters"  Christopher Chant:

" The BF-109G was therefore planned from early 1941 as a development of the BF 109F with a considerably more powerful engine and, in reflection of the fact that both cruising flight and combat were taking place at increasingly high altitudes, a pressurized cockpit.....the pressurization system inevitably added to the weight of the basic airframe"

So what was happening was the 109s were being transformed by the necessity for more powerful aircraft. True the 109G6 then may have been less manueverable than the 109E or F but, it was faster and could handle combat better at hi altitude. There were few differences in the G variants other than the addition of pressurized cockpits, and cannon which were heavier and harder hitting eg. the 30 mm cannon versus the 20 mm, and variants of the DB 605 engines.
The drastic differences Kratzer and others speak of cannot be explained by your response AK Wulfe, and there may be a problem with the modeling of the G6 as compared to the G2 etc.
For example, according to what I have read, the G6 lacked the pressurized cockpit "as did all later G variants", and certain of them had the DB 603AM engine installed which could boost takeoff power from 1,475 hp to 1,800 hp and boost power available at 13,450 feet to 1,700 hp.
Heavier airframes had more of an impact on handling because of the added weight but, more powerful engines was the trade off.
There shouldn't be that drastic a difference between the models G2 and G6 other than the option to add increased cannon.
If any one of those guys who have complained are using the 30 mm cannon gondolas, they simply shouldn't use em, and ought to see a difference at alt in combat. If its low alt knife fighting they are referring to, then the 109G6 was not developed for that kind of fighting.

Offline AKSWulfe

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2002, 02:54:34 PM »
My mistake, I wasn't thinking when I posted... I know the G2 is a great aircraft. I meant the G6 series didn't pickup until G6/AS (more powerful engine, cleaner aerodynamically) and the G series didn't pick up after that until the G10 and G14.

The early style G6 we have here has more drag which would burn off more speed- especially in manuevers- than the G2. So is it any wonder why it's not as good as the G2 or other 109 models we have here?
-SW

Offline superpug1

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2002, 07:13:51 PM »
Its a 109. Its just the nature of the plane. Meaning it wants to hit the ground rather than getting killed by a hurricane.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2002, 01:00:04 AM »
Bf109G6 is very good.

Offline airquest

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2002, 01:49:40 AM »
G6 is for me the best 109 after F4 (without gondolas) i like turning in 109's!

Offline senna

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2002, 06:22:52 PM »
Well I'm not exactly saying its slow or too fast or cant climb right or stuff like that. I'm really going on feel and using my precise guessimation skillls that I'm endowed with :) Heh JK, anyways I have been flying the G6 for quite a while now and all was  ok then all of a sudden one day I noticed that it was "heavy" in the nose, enough so that in order to make the flying corrections required, I was using pulling on my stick much harder than usual. The same problem didnt occur with the other 109s as I did swicth between them to confirm this. It was obvious to me then. To be honest havent touch it recently but I'll give it another shot.

-- senna

Offline udet

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2002, 04:03:38 PM »
use combat trim?

Offline senna

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2002, 02:44:32 AM »
Nevermind...

I give up.

-- gvu

Offline Don

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109 G-6 is a porky pig
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2002, 09:35:02 AM »
>>Nevermind...

I give up<<

Hehe, Senna, I heard you, and I agree with you. There is something different about it. For me, sometimes a "feel" can be just as accurate as statistical analysis, only more difficult to quantify ;)