Cougar vs CH Fighterstick/pro throttle

[ygsmilo]

Ok, the wife told me to buy my fathers day gift.

I need a new Hotas to go with the new system.

I have looked at both and they look good, I have CH pro pedals and they have been a good product.

I can get the CH stuff for about $80 less, but money is not the issue.

What are the differences between the 2 ?

[HFMudd]

Never had the Cougar, I have the CH products stuff.  For me, the one advantage the CH Pro-Throttle has is that the movement is straight forward and back rather than around an axis.  I used to have a Saitek and that throttle moved around an axis as well.  Because it flexed my wrist a bit AND because I work the views with my throttle thumb AND because I have some trouble with tendonitus anyway, the Saitek throttle caused problems after a bit.  I assume the Cougar would as well.

I am kind of jealous of the twisty pots on the Cougar throttle though...

Oh, and of course, the Cougar is metal while the CH is very tuff plastic.

[Doberman]

Simply no comparison.  If you can afford it, there's just no reason not to have a Cougar.  In fact, even if you have to give up eating for a month, the Cougar is still worth every penny.

I started long ago with TM stuff.  Moved to CH USB gear just for the convenience of USB.  Am now just changing over to a Cougar.  The CH Pro stuff is nice, but not even equal to my old TM.  And not at all in the same leage as the new Cougar.

The programability of the TM is just amazing.  Light years beyond the CH products.  

And the feel!  All metal.  Heavy.  Sturdy.  Realistic.  Adjustible throttle detents for idle & afterburner/WEP.  Personally, I think the arced movement of the throttle is a BIG bonus.  They're that way in the real planes so that pilot can tell their throttle position by height and distance.   I HATE the flat movement of my CH.

The one downfall of the Cougar at the moment is that it doesn't come with rudders.  It has a 15-pin gameport input for pedals, so you can plug in TM Elites, TM RCS, CH regular pedals, etc.  The toe brakes don't work on the CH's though (there's a small wiring hack that you can do if you have some skills).  TM will soon be releasing their own pedals with toe brakes.  CH USB pedals will also work right alongside the Cougar in programs that accept multiple controllers.  Aces High, IL2, WWII Online, etc.  No joy with Falcon 4 though.  You gotta have gameport rudders plugged into the Cougar for that.

D

[Vladd]

I've used CH fighterstick / Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals for years. But Doberman is correct: having recently bought a Cougar there really is no comparison, the TM product is way ahead in all respects. Not to say CH is bad of course, just that the Cougar really is something special.


Vladd

[Wanker]

I've been a CH Products guy for years, using my trusty Pro Throttle USB, Combatstick USB and Pro Pedals USB. I even switched to the Saitek X45 last year after I won it at the con. I like both systems, really, but my Cougar arrived yesterday and there is no comparison in construction and quality.

The CH Products and Saitek controllers are fine, nothing wrong with them at all.  But IMO the extra money is well spent on upgrading to the Cougar.

[Revvin]

In the last couple of years I've used a TM FLCS/TQS, a CH Force FX/Pro Throttle combo, a Saitek X36 USB and a MS Sidewinder FF2. I now have a Cougar and it beats all those other sticks hands down.

Build wise nothing beats the Cougar's all metal construction, the stick, base and all the buttons and hat switches are metal. The unit feels like you could bash nails in with it and then go flying. The only thing IMHO that comes close to Thrustmasters build quality is CH's gear. Saitek is cheap and cheerful but thats it. I often found myself a bit concerned I'd break the X36 because it felt so flimsy but apart from that it was a decent stick for the price. One thing I disliked about the CH throttle was its sliding back and fore movement. It was very loose and as I map bomber commands to it I found myself often adjusting throttle when trying to input commands. I much preferred the arc movement of the X36 and the Cougar throttle.

Programmability...well nothing even touches the Cougar in this department IMHO. The FOXY software is a joy to use and James Hallows really did Thrustmaster proud with this superb piece of coding. I never needed the manual for the first couple of days as I made profiles for the sims I play. Following the tutorials meant I had useable profiles in no time at all and I only used the manual to explain some of the more technical aspects of programming the Cougar. Saitek's SGE and CH's Speedkey's are nice and user friendly but don't touch FOXY in terms of features and programmabilty. If you do get a Cougar don't be put off because it does'nt have a WYSIWYG interface like the SGE and Speedkeys, follow the tutorials and you'll have no problems. Of course you could download a ready made profile and I have one here complete with a graphical overlay explaining the button layout.

If you buy anything else and then later get to try a Cougar you'll be gutted you never bought one for yourself. If you got the money then do it you won't be dissapointed.

[Vermillion]

Ok I gotta call roadkill here

I know you Cougar guys gotta convince yourself that it was worth all the cash with all this hoorah crap, but come on

While I have no doubt that the all metal Cougar is very nice, one of you show me a CH stick that you broke.

Yes they're plastic, but very very tough.

And programming? come on guys, be realistic.  Speedkeys for the older non-usb CH products was very easy and as versatile as you needed (much easier to program than the pre-Cougar TM stuff), and the new CH USB programming utility is just as good or even better. So to say that the Cougar is untouchable in programability, is dumb because the CH gear does the exact same stuff.

Most of the statements above are true if your comparing the Cougar to a Sidewinder or a Saitek, but the comparison to the CH gear is not accurate.  The two products are very similar.

And again if your gonna be honest, at least mention the fact that alot of Cougar owners are very unhappy about the overly stiff springs, and the inability to get smooth control near the break point for this reason.

banana, if you wanna get rid of the USB CH stuff you got last year, bring it with you to the Con and make me a deal.   I'll take it, and it sounds like you don't need it anymore.  Email me, and we'll negotiate a price

Just a dissenting opinon.  

[Revvin]

Can you program any of the hat switches to be another axis like the Cougar? can you program the axis while using the stick in a sim to make them sensitive/less sensitive as required? can you logically program a set of switches so that you can program failsafe's IE you need to press one button then another to activate a command? (just the tip of the iceberg of logical programming) Can you program any of the axis to be both analogue and digital at the same time? ie program the end of the throttle travel to enable WEP and yet still have the throttle register 0-100% up to the point you program the WEP point? (think along the lines of a WW2 pilot pushing the throttle through the wire to get wep) can you program your stick to mimic the mouse? (useful not only for AH view control but also IL-2, Flanker 2 and others) can you adjust the tension of your throttle to stop it moving while you operate the buttons? (very annoying when trying to fly close formation) Does the throttle have rotaries for fine control of control surfaces, zoom etc? (even Saitek's X36 has this)

Thats just stuff off the top of my head for programming theCougar, I myself have just scratched the surface of programming my Cougar. I've tried the rest and nothing does come close.

I liked the CH gear I had but it did have a few niggling problems, build quality was only second the TM IMO but lets face it CH has stood still for the last 5 years in their designs (even TM has improved upon its close approximation of a real F16 stick) All they have done is add USB plugs to their gear. TM have improved the resolution of their sticks, the mouse control and the programmability quite considerably not to mention taking the build quality to another level.

[Vermillion]

My point though Revvin, is that while I'm sure the Cougar is a fine stick, people are only yelling out its good points, but totally ignoring its weak points.

And most of the things you mentioned I believe are possible in the CH programming. Not to mention that the CH programming tool is a graphical interface, while its my understanding that the Cougar is not? Am I incorrect there?

While I undestand you guys are enjoying your sticks, at least try to do an honest assesment and give the bad as well as the good.

[Doberman]

The Cougar has weak points?   Hmmmmmmmmmm.  

Well, lessee.  I did mention that USB pedals can't interface directly with it.  I suppose that IS a weak point at the moment if you're flying a sim that can't take input from more than 1 controller.  All of the newer ones do though.  The only sim I still fly that doesn't is Falcon 4.   TM should soon be releasing their own pedals though, which will rectify that problem.  I can't plug my USB pedals into my older TM or CH gear either.  Not that big a deal.  

Stiff springs?  Sounds like a weak point in the user to me.  Not the stick.  It's not as stiff as the TM F-22 was.  Personally, I've got no problem with break points, and the stronger springs keeps me from overcontrolling.  My CH Fighterstick USB is waaaaaaaaay too light for my tastes.  Is that a weak point of the CH?  No, it's just a point.  

Programming?  Verm, you simply don't know what you're talking about here.  Believe me, the Cougar is light years ahead of the CH gear in programmability.  As far as CH is ahead of the 2 button stick I had a decade ago, TM is ahead of CH.  While it's certainly not necessary (expecially in a game with relativley few controls like AH), having those programming abilities is a plus.  Flying Falcon 4 with a great stick program is like magic.  There's a full featured programming tool on the installation disk that's usable by everyone from experienced TM programmers down to the newest simmer who needs a GUI.

There have been some apparant Quality Control issues.  Reports of some misaligned Speed Brake toggles which have led to some broken switches, and what seemed to have been a batch of bad paint.  Unfrotunatly, these things happen, even during production of a pricy product.  In fact, my CH USB Throttle came with a non-working button that I had to crack the case open to repair.  If they were all falling apart, this might be more of an issue.  But the # of folks who've reported problems is very small.

Would I like to see some changes in the Cougar?  Weeeeellllllllll ... sorta.  I like the buttons under the pinky, ring & middle finger of my left hand on the CH Throttle.  I'd sure like to have them on the TM.  But the Cougar is designed on the real life F-16 controls, which don't have these buttons.  I don't really see this as a down point, just a design detail that I hafta adapt to.


I have the feeling that this discussion will turn out like all the PC vs. Mac / Playstation vs. X-Box / Ford vs. Chevy / Harley Davidson vs. Quality motorcycle arguments that have been going on since time immemorial.  

It seems to come down to something like jealousy or at least a need for justifying the one you have.

I don't have that problem.  I have 'em both (and have had pretty much all of the major flight sim products produced by both companies in the last decade).  Price isn't a point here at all, as I paid roughly $300 for my full CH USB setup and will pay not too much over that when the TM rudder is added into the price of the Cougar.  I don't feel a need to justify one over the other.   I can use whichever one I feel is the better.

That is the Thrustmaster Cougar.  CH Products USB flight controls are great, no doubt about it.  They'll do the job and do it well.  The Cougar just does it better.

D

[Revvin]

Verm have you ever used a Cougar or the programming software? if not then I don't know how you can comment on it. I've used speedkeys and although the software has been updated the physical buttons and layout have not so you have no rotaries, last time I checked you could not map the axis to be both digital and analogue at the same time and you certainly could not reprogram the axis on the fly with the touch of a button.

I have given an honest opinion based on my use of other sticks which I listed in my original post and I fail to see how in your words you can give one when you've never used a Cougar.

Weak points?........well I've sat here now for a few mins, drank a cup of tea and thought about it and thats got to say something for the stick. After a lot of thought the speedbrake button is perhaps a little stiff although mine has bedded in nicely now. I did have the TM Elite pedals dissapear sometimes on boot up but thats been fixed in the latest firmware released. Apart from that I'm happy and can't think of anything else. Of course others have had problems, its mass produced like anything else and I've seen friends buy CH, MS and Saitek sticks that did'nt work. My first Cougar arrived not working (possibly due to handling in transit) it certainly would'nt be the first component I've had thats faulty.

[airspro]

IMO the CH Throttle is better setup for games as it has more buttons and hats that are placed in good easy to use postions .

THAT said , the CH stick are not even close to ease of use of the cougar stick ( at least with the f22 springs installed as mine is)

Why ? With CH you get one pov hat thats IMO and many others that is just too high up to be easy to reach .

Now with Foxy , tm programing in just three days of ownership I have changed the Hat1 POV to Hat2 and made Hat1 POV a four way hat with directx inputs . Any of the hats on the cougar can be done in the same way . Why and hell CH did not do this has me baffeled , as I would have bought a CH again if I could have reached the damn POV hat .

If I had my wish llst I would love the CH throttle with two trim wheels , a cougar stick top mounted on a FFB2 base . With the foxy programing .

[funkedup]

Wha?  CH Fighterstick USB has 4 hats.  Pro Throttle USB has 4 hats.  And you don't have enough hats?  

Some of the programming stuff Revvin pointed out is beyond the CH Control Manager's abilities, but most of it is easily done with the CH stuff.  The only one that excites me is having WEP on the throttle detent.  Would be cool to be able to "break the wire".  

If you like metal stuff and stiff springs, the TM stuff is for you.
I'm definitely going to wait and see on reliability and durability though.  Anything that's a brand new design is going to have some issues when the first batch hits the streets, even if they are small issues.

[straffo]

Just way one month ....

when they will see their Coogar become loose ... we will hear a lot of scream

Sorry guys the cougar is a nice stick but cannot handle a WWII sim reliabli

[Animal]

Originally posted by straffo
Just way one month ....

when they will see their Coogar become loose ... we will hear a lot of scream

Sorry guys the cougar is a nice stick but cannot handle a WWII sim reliabli

Are you drunk straffo?