Author Topic: Cougar Hotas control sucks.  (Read 839 times)

Offline 214thCavalier

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« on: June 09, 2002, 06:05:49 PM »
Ok most of you who bother to read this will probably be aware of my complaint and others of lack of fine control near the breakpoint of the Cougar.
Also you will probably be aware i weakened my springs but this still never gave me the precise and fine control back that i had around the breakpoint with my Saitek X36.
Well all has been cured and apart from still needing to get a rudder set i am now perfectly happy with control of my Cougar.
Ok on to the why and how to cure.

Most of us i believe have been setting the AH joystick curves etc all the way up and disabling the dead zones etc in AH, opting instead to use the nifty new Thrustmaster app called  HOTAS Cougar Control Panel, which looks great all those options for dead zones and curves etc.

HOWEVER it sucks the big one.

Reason,  even if you turn off all dead zones etc in the Cougar setup and set your curves to your desired setting it STILL gives you a dead zone (which i hate) making it extremely difficult to get accurate and precise control anywhere near the breakpoint.
The main problem here is because of this dead zone you cannot get really accurate input, as an analogy think of an electric motor connected to a rheostat.
Using the TM  HOTAS Cougar Control Panel when i gently move the stick from centre position the electric motor analogy would start spinning at 100 rpm, however using my setup it now in effect starts spinning at 1 rpm giving me absolute accuracy and precision even at the breakpoint.

How to test this theory,

Set AH joystick controls to standard all at top and no dead zones or damping etc as most of us already have.

Go to HOTAS Cougar Control Panel and set to your desired curve and set dead zones to zero %.
Start AH offline and select Ostwind then type .target 1000
Go to main gunner and turn north you will see a target, zoom all the way in aim about half way up and fire a marker shot, ok now zoomed all the way in put your aim pipper on that marked spot, if it is anything like mine was it was nearly impossible because of that dead zone in the TM program even the slightest movement of the stick causes the pipper to start moving at speed in effect jumping past the spot you aim at before you can stop it.
It made no difference what or how I altered the TM HOTAS Cougar Control Panel it was impossible to stop this dead zone effect and associated accelerated start  when leaving the dead zone.

Cure,
Ok i decided to set the TM HOTAS Cougar Control Panel as follows for the joystick i removed all dead zones for X and Y ie set to zero not the standard 5% I also removed all curve settings for X and Y giving a straight line and of course saved the file.

I now reverted to my original stick config file that i used with my Saitek X36 previously and trying the Ostwind test again the effect was immediately obvious, TOTAL and precise control even at the breakpoint.
Now the slightest pressure on the stick gives me a gradual and totally controllable movement response.
In the Ostwind test above i can now pan in 1 smooth move to any single bullet hole on the target zoomed right in at 1000 yards no corrections needed.

After trying some flight i tweaked the setting a bit to better suit the Cougar and aircraft response is sooo much better (for me)
Totally predictable and smooth response to the slightest input on the stick even at the breakpoint.

Absolute and Total perfection.

I have attached my pitch and roll joystick settings for those of you who dont think i am an heretic for daring to criticise the Cougar and wish to try anything to perfect there control of it.

Did i say i was Happy ?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2002, 01:35:24 PM by 214thCavalier »

Offline 214thCavalier

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2002, 06:07:26 PM »
Pitch.

Offline Wanker

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2002, 06:12:23 PM »
No offense, Cav, but I haven't touched any deadband or axis settings in either AH or the TM CCP since I got my Cougar, and I feel that the Cougar gives me much better control than the Saitek X45 ever did.  


Offline 214thCavalier

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2002, 06:17:13 PM »
No offense taken some say they suffer control problems and some dont but you might wanna at least try that Ostwind test see how good your current control is.
Btw its not just me and Spro quite a few people are complaining on the Cougar site, maybe we are just more sensitive lol :)

Offline CptTrips

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2002, 08:07:16 PM »
Cav,

I tried your changes and and I do think it improved things for me.  I still have y axis trim set to -24 in cougar control panel but other than that did what you said.  Thanks.

Wab
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Offline Pongo

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2002, 01:22:48 AM »
I tried exactly what you did. except no spring stretching or boot removal..
works great...definatly the best I have felt it...
like you said the center is now not jumpy at all..
got to figure a way to get a calibration to stick now..
constant small drift to the right...
thanks cav.

Offline Mathman

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2002, 11:30:05 AM »
Pongo,

When I would do the automatic calibration, I the center would be off to the right.  When I do the manual calibration, it goes to exact center and keeps it (refreshing change after the POS X36 I had that wouldn't hold a calibration for more than 15 minutes).

As far as the springs go, I have really gotten used to the tension in them.  I think I will try the scaling that you all did and see if that helps me at all.  I am not really having any trouble with the stick.  The problem is in the rudders for me.  I am using CH Pro USB pedals, and they are really sensitive around the center.  I have them mapped so they look exponential (small slope at left increasing to near vertical as you go to the left) in the AH setup screen.  

I don't know if it is a pedal issue or just my not being used to using them.  If anyone has any ideas what I can do to make them so that I can do small inputs around the center, I would be very grateful for the help.

Thanks,
Math

Offline AKDejaVu

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2002, 11:36:35 AM »
The foot pedals are the hardest for me too Mathman.  At times.. I miss the twisty stick.

AKDejaVu

Offline SlapShot

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2002, 12:34:45 PM »
Cav,

Thanks so much for all the info and screen shots (wish you posted you CCP settings in a screen shot).

Have played around with it myself and am satisfied with the feel while flying, but in an Osty, was getting the exact problem that you described ... errrr !!!

Can't wait to get home and try them.

Deja ... I hear ya ... coming from a twisty stick to pedals is quite a task, but the more I use them, the more I like them.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2002, 12:37:29 PM by SlapShot »
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Offline Pongo

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2002, 01:59:13 PM »
Math..
I have just started thinking about my rudder axis seeing what Cav accomplished with my x and y..
Do I have to calibrate in the Cougar control software and AH...or just one or just the other?

Offline airspro

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2002, 04:24:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The foot pedals are the hardest for me too Mathman.  At times.. I miss the twisty stick.

AKDejaVu


Give this learning curve a lot of time , took about 2 years for me but the feeling of using real acting rudder pedals over twisting when it finally gets easy is really great and well worth the wait .

Remember how it was to slidslip before ? :D

I even get snap shots just like I used to now .


take care
spro
My current Ace's High handle is spro

Offline 214thCavalier

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2002, 06:38:26 PM »
Well i said put the CCP X and Y axis to zero but if it helps have some pics.

Offline 214thCavalier

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2002, 06:39:22 PM »
Y axis.

Offline SirLoin

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2002, 09:04:53 PM »
Hehehe!...I'm still happy with my 3 year old MS FFB Pro.
:D
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Offline SlapShot

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Cougar Hotas control sucks.
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2002, 12:49:34 PM »
Cav,

Thank you very much for your posts !!! :D

Implemented them last night and 1st time out in an Osty I got 15 kills !!! Also, the controls while flying are perfectly smooth.

I manually calibrated the stick and found that when the stick was in the center position, while flying, the plane always wants to turn to the right (slightly). Is this to be expected due to engine torque modeling or do I need to calibrate again ?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2002, 01:01:08 PM by SlapShot »
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