Author Topic: bishops key to success-not a flame  (Read 896 times)

Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2002, 04:16:06 PM »
Island hopping was McArthur's strategy, and that was an offensive strategy.

McArthur was smart enough to know what was strategically important - and he attacked it. He realized he needed to establish staging bases close to Japan in order to invade it and end the war.

A defensive stragety is what the French did with the Maginal line. And what did the Germans do? They went around it through the Arden emplying their Blitz Krieg.

The island hopping is simliar in stragety in that the plan was to go around the enemies strong points and destroy their logistics.

And what happened to the French? They got occupied because they fought defensively.

Now was the Battle of Britain Defensive or Offensive?
Did the Brits go up and attack anything they saw? No.

They specifically ignored the fighters and engaged the bombers.
RADAR allowed the Brits to pick and choose their fights.

Their pilots had the balls to fight against what?

OVERWELMHING NUMBERS

Did their pilots whine like little sissy girls because the numbers were not fair? No!

They fought smarter. That's why they won.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2002, 04:22:36 PM by DmdNexus »

Offline viking73

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« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2002, 04:28:26 PM »
Yes, the Bishops have the majority of players most of the time. But there are plenty of times the other countries happen to have more on a given night or time. Or there are times when they don't get a reset due to a miscue or work done by the other country. Last night was a good example. Bishops could have reset Knights if we didn't push the Rooks north and keep up the number of bases.

Even with higher numbers, you can't win a reset without organization and the willingness to win the reset. It also has to do with having some STRATEGIC sense about this game. Many times I or someone would fly a buff only to find a high alt fighter waiting for them. At the same time I've seen buffs fly in from other countries unmolested because there is no high cap.

I know of times when a few of us M.A.W. were on and we would try to organize a mission but alot of the players on at the time were not interested. In fact I had someone tell me one time that he was there for fun and didn't want to capture anything. There's the rub.

Some fly AH just for fun or points and could care less who wins. They are not in a squad or are in a small squad. I'm sure all the countries have them. They're flying high when they need to be under radar or they kill all the fuel and troops so it can't be used after a capture. They're mostly (but not all) the immature kids that are flying.

The rest know what this flight sim is all about which is capturing bases and getting a reset. I have noticed that the Bishops not only have numbers but have the leadership and organization it takes to win. We may not like it but we have to  >Salute< how it's done.   ;)

« Last Edit: June 13, 2002, 04:34:12 PM by viking73 »
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2002, 04:36:55 PM »
Nexus I think I know what fighting against odds in ww2 is, I'm a finn.

You still missed that part with your ID though.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2002, 04:39:33 PM »
this aint a war nexus nothing is won by reseting it starts right over.

A lot of folks just logged in to get a few kills and dont care for "base hoping".

See mandobles post that shows k/d for all 3 countries last tour.

Rooks had a higher k/d so in theory they earned more perks per kill. So one can imagine then actually earning more perks defending then they would by resetting the arena.

I know i usually earn more from defending.

But Bish k/d was lowest. I submit that that is a result of the suicide mission gang bangers.

10 ack at a field they have 10 guys in their mission who will kill themselves to get umm.

Thats not organization or strategy. Thats sheep mentality. The reason a lot of bish join mission could be do to the fact theres nothing else for them to do. Except chase each other around fighting their country mates for a kill.

The last base cap i went on was with  3 of my guys we took 4 bases in 45 min. None "sneaked" or defenseless or gang banged.

How you have fun is your choice but its a bit rediculous to come and claim "bish are better" in anything but strength in numbers.

Nexus might be one them napolean types who defines  "organization" and "team work" by how many folks fly how he expects.

You want "team work" call and clear your country mates 6, learn to drag and know what planes your country mates are flying. Theres no sense of team with out a foundation.

The way I play my squad is my "team" the rest is meaningless.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2002, 04:40:13 PM »
As to being out-numbered. Yeah, it is frequently a pain in the neck. However, there is usually no lack of enemy, so it's anything but boring. I believe that the Rooks need to organize better on a daily basis, not only for RJOs. If more pilots would volunteer to CAP the HQ, we would not find ourselves blind half of the time. Frankly, I'm getting tired of doing it. One or two fighters isn't enough to kill off 5 B-17s, and sometimes roving hordes of bombers make a pass over the HQ. Indeed, if the Rooks (Bish and Knits too) established an informal squad-based BARCAP, it would go a long way towards solving this problem. A different squad assumes the duty each night. This way, you would only get stuck with this duty a few times a month. Hey, why not?

I've watched some of those huge Tiffy missions fall apart in dramatic fashion. A few evenings back, a monster mission began launching from a Bish field on the west side of the map. A Buff driver called it in. I was about 20 miles away in my Yak, and along with 4 other pilots, headed over to harass the horde. Upon arriving over the huge gaggle of Tiffies, 110s and Mossies, we rolled in from their high 6. At least 9 of the enemy (estimated at 25-30 in number) went down. When I ran out of ammo, I made mock attacks until fuel became an issue. Meanwhile, the Rooks had an equally large reception waiting for the attackers, most well above the scattered horde. Within minutes, the attack was crushed. Not a single Bish made it to the target field.

This was a case of poor planning in my estimation. There were dozens of Rooks airborne between the takeoff and target fields. Furthermore, there was a fully operational Rook field just a few miles to the east. Those big raids can be devastating, as long as they are not met by equal numbers with the advantage of altitude. This raid was doomed from its inception. At the very least, the launch field was far to close to target field.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline DmdNexus

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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2002, 04:49:38 PM »
ripley,

Don't even put your self into the same class as the veterans of WWII.  

You have no idea what it is like - which proves, like so many of your other comments, your bellybutton and your mouth are interchangeble - they produce chit.

Wontan,

I said nothing about resets, the bish being better, or making people fly a certain way.

Reread the thread - You are mistaking me with viking73's comments.

My comments relate to people who whine about numbers.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2002, 05:17:26 PM by DmdNexus »

Offline zipity

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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2002, 05:01:28 PM »
Question: I heard on one of these post once that the reason bish had more numbers is because when new players join they are by default put into the arena as bish.  Anyone know if that's true?

If it is it seems like it would be easy enough to fix.  Change the default each tour.

Offline llbm_MOL

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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2002, 05:19:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hooligan
People keep talking about Rooks, Knights and Bishops.  On my screen all I see are reds and greens.  I shoot the reds.

Hooligan



I'd shoot alot of the greens but my wings fall off.......:(

LLB OUT!!!!!

Offline Fariz

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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2002, 05:20:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Well, if you think so, I stand corrected, Fariz :)

 But seriously, though there may be some differences, I don't think there's any sort of general 'quality' issues of average pilots in any country. Kronos pointed out he saw a lot of mission participants when he was with Bish.. I don't really think all the other pilots in us Rooks are incompetent or don't understand the usefulness of missions so they do not join. I was sort of looking for an obejctive reason to why - if what Kronos say is true - some country will love to put up missions, and some not. I guess finding the reason in numbers seemed the easiest answer to me. ;)


It is all about people, who can (and want) to make good missions. If people knows someone's mission will be succesful and not borring -- they will join.

Numbers does matter, but people used to overweight the factor of numbers. 3 people in ki67s can completly change all the strat by hitting 1 country front fields fuel. As I said knights had number advantage for about 6 months -- they not only won more, but actually were the side which lost more resets than 2 others.

Fariz

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2002, 08:08:59 PM »
Ok I can't stop myself ........

First to be up front - I'm a Bish

While I can't agree with kronos' post about Bishes winning through missions I certainly don't agree with the whining (and that's what it is) about numbers.

I Classic example occured a couple of weeks ago - and Turbot can confirm this....  Bishes had superior numbers and Knits down to 3 bases... 85% of all bishes were busily bombing the remaining Knit airfields to oblivion when a few of us noticed Rooks had taken out all our fuel etc on our Rook frontline ...... then started a march of Rook missions which took 6 bases from us in less then 2 hours while 15 or so of us cried for help and got shotdown :).  Very shortly after Rooks took the lead in fields a none to popular bish dropped the last load of troops on a Knit filed and Rooks won the reset.......  I'm sorry Turbot but it was funny - really.  Rooks played a blinder of a strategy and won with inferior numbers.

I have also been on the receiving end MANY MANY times of a combined Rook Knit offensive which, although we had similar numbers to each other country, when teamed against we were out numbered 2:1 - thats the nature of 3 country structure.

In terms of missions it sounds like Bishland has about the same experience as the others - a few well known names create successful missions while the others are ignored - hint to other countries - check if Fariz is online, if he is then Bishes will be in big missions :D

Wotan - these suicide mission flyers - I'm one of them - I like flying with others but I just suck and so the ack often gets me. You are a very well known and competent flyer and you gain my respect for that but please don't get on my case about drilling craters in your airfields - some of us just aren't as good - but it is only a game .....

Lastly MrRipley ........ :( ...... when are you EVER[/i] going to get over this numbers thing.  Whenever I log on and you are on you are always always always moaning about the numbers. Unless Rooks have parity between the combined numbers of Bish and Knits you are not happy.  Please please get over it ... oh and HO's as well........  .  And before you challenge me to a duel you can beat me and always have since i first came across you in H2H but I don't really care about that - its a game. MrRip - the people I respect are the ones who turn the tide by thinking and skill - people like Whels, ts, Ripsnort, and many others who I see after "you've been killed by.."

Sparks

Offline zipity

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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2002, 08:54:47 PM »


Deja vu - "a couple of weeks ago" - this happened today and got me frustrated enough to quit playing and start reading these boards.  Sometimes not having the numbers gives you the advantage of playing as a team for a single cause, instead of having to split forces between those with tunnel vision and those trying to win the war.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2002, 10:12:16 PM »
Quote
Wotan - these suicide mission flyers - I'm one of them - I like flying with others but I just suck and so the ack often gets me. You are a very well known and competent flyer and you gain my respect for that but please don't get on my case about drilling craters in your airfields - some of us just aren't as good - but it is only a game .....


Dont gimme too much credit i suk as well.

my point is that mission and "organization" all sound great. But in reality it more just the case a mass attacks against  very limited defensives. This gets reproduced over and over. It may be effective but it hardly can be considered a sign of genuin "strategy".

My point about folks dieing in missions isnt to show how better "skilled" another person is in surviving or the lack of "skill" because some dies. Its more a matter of will then anything. From what I there very little will to survive. Folks riding their ord all the way in spraying like mad, knowing they will auger, as long as they get 1 ack.

country k/d some what supports this. The bish had numbers last tour and had a greater opportunity to vulch so you would expect a higher k/d. However, we see the opposite and from my own observation of those large missions is that a good chunk auger in.

just mho

Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2002, 11:42:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apache


Actually, FDR is a good example of "the best defense is a good offense." We island hopped all the way to Japan.


Apache...

You totally missed my point. A good offense against a wrong or useless target is as pointless as no defense at all.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2002, 11:47:21 PM »
Dmdnexus who ever said I did?

You're the self-boasted military hero here.. LOL.
I've never seen such a comical appearance on a UBB before.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2002, 09:10:24 AM »
Yep... organized gangbanging is nothing but gameplay killing.   Mission planning is most often nothing more than a clumsy brute force frontal assault with huge casulties.   Look at the dildo boys K/D...   They will sacrafice 8 typhoons to kill one FH and wreck gameplay.. How this can be "fun" for them is beyond me.
lazs