Author Topic: Why %Hit????  (Read 669 times)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2002, 06:48:45 AM »
I only care for my kill ratio
because i'm a bad gunner that will never change
i also got to many assists
i even shreck up at very close

:)

Offline MANDOBLE

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2002, 07:52:15 AM »
I have a very different feeling between 190s.
With 190A5 (firing 4 guns) or D9 (firing all guns and MGs) a 11% is easily achieved. On the other hand, with 190A8 I rarely go higher than 9% firing only 4x20 or 2x20+2x30.
With 109 is not easier to hit, but when you hit you usually hit with most of your burst bullets.

What is clear is that different planes have different innate hit %, as an example we have the Yak9U seconded by P38, far easier to hit with them than with any single gunned 109.

Offline mipoikel

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2002, 08:08:16 AM »
:confused:

Quote
With 190A5 (firing 4 guns) or D9 (firing all guns and MGs) a 11% is easily achieved. On the other hand, with 190A8 I rarely go higher than 9% firing only 4x20 or 2x20+2x30.


How can you know hit% by planemodel? :confused:
I am a spy!

Offline lazs2

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2002, 08:11:55 AM »
wulfie.. u are correct to a point but... 5 kills in a sortie in a hog can mean five difficult fights where you only get high percentage snap shots after a lot of work and the 11 kill sortie can mean (and often does) that you are killing guys taht are assleep or haven't gotten their wheels off the ground yet.  In short... I have worked one hell of a lot harder for 3 kills and come home with an empty clip than I have on 9 kill sorties.   Course.... with fifties, I may have 5 assists in that 3 kill sortie.  

I also would point out that if you have a cannon bird with a short clip you will tend to have a higher percentage since you will wait till you saddle up so as to not waste all your ammo and have to go home or ditch.

I agree tho, and have allways said, that the stats are great tools for the individual to use for his own personal use as a guide or to check progress but only the individual knows what is important to him...  I find K/T very important as it indicates how quickly I am finding fights.   To me.... those with low K/T are simply flying low risk.  

If the "rank" is a vehicle for determining behavior then I think K/T is very important and needs to be weighed into the equation...  I don't think that hiding from the fights should be rewarded.

also...  If hit percentage is such a good indication of "skill" how then do you explain.....   drex?
lazs

Offline MANDOBLE

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2002, 08:22:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
How can you know hit% by planemodel? :confused:


These are my experiences with different 190 models after extensive use of them not using the sight at all in any of them, using the sight my % drops a lot.

Offline Halo

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2002, 08:38:44 AM »
Stats are good ways for us to track whatever we're interested in the most, but as many have pointed out, they can be gamed considerably depending on what we want to achieve.

In real combat, the main stat is did we win or lose?  Live or die?  Achieve the mission objective or not?  Some of the fine category stats might be useful training aids, but purely supplements to the main scorecard.  

As the circus maxim says, we're only as good as our last performance -- the total record contributes to our reputations, but the most important contest is the next one.  

I like the stats as another bonus of Aces High, made possible only in computer cyberwar.   Sometimes I like to see how well I can do in one category or another, but the most fun I have is to try lots of different stuff in different vehicles and ignore the stats.

Of course then someone points out that it not realistic to just fight and have fun till you cyber die, but that's another thread.
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Offline wulfie

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2002, 09:52:19 AM »
lazs the F4U comparison was a strictly hypothetical example. I was trying to explain what I thought the reasoning was behind having hit % affect score. For certain there are many possible scenarios outside what I mentioned.

I never said that hit % alone is a good indication of 'skill'. There are lots of guys who 'fly' AH who have great eyes for 'tough shots' but don't have a high gunnery %.

I guess the best way to put it is this - a good shot like drex has a lower hit % because he's not trying to have a high hit %. He's firing an extra 25%+ ammunition per burst to 'make sure' he lands fatal hits. He's good at lining up tough deflections, and by firing early and adjusting fire he's making sure he'll get some fatal hits.

My gunnery % is usually much lower in scenarios/historical events/etc. than it is in the MA. The reason for this is that in the MA I am 'training' all the time in terms of gunnery - I try to set up a shot 'correctly' (from my point of view) almost every time before I take it. I try to make it so every round of every burst lands on target. Doing these things in the MA helps me practice at making tough deflection shots. But in a 'serious' event I 'take off the training blinders' and 'fire with reckless abandon'.

Another thing to look at with drex - what is he flying? Almost always an aircraft that carries .50 MGs in the wings as of late. This is always going to give you a lower gunnery % than if you were flying the P-38 for example. You have seen the most of drex up close and personal when he's been flying in your squadron - and shooting wing mounted .50 MGs alot. I saw him the most up close and personal when he was flying Bf 109s. While I never really tracked his gunnery % (if he shoots down what he's shooting at why bother), I gurantee it was higher in Bf 109s than it was in F4Us and P-47s.

I think your hit % is always going to be lower in .50 MG armed aircraft (regardless of gun location) because you can attempt deflection shots with a .50 MG that you would never bother attempting with some other weapons.

For me - if I don't try to miss with as few rounds as possible, it is *way* easier for me to score kills. My K/D, K/T, and K/S all go way up if I'm not doing the whole 'aim - aim - aim - short burst - watch burst - adjust - aim - aim - short burst - etc.' routine. But I 'punish' myself with that routine so when I'm in a serious event, or a squadron duel (where I constantly have to bail drex's overrated bellybutton out of the fire, if memory serves) it's 'easier' (for lack of a better term or description) for me to shoot guys down. Fewer self imposed restrictions like minimum aim time, no 'putting up a wall of lead' for the bad guy to fly thru, etc.

In short - think of the hit % affect on score as intended for the 'lowest common denominator' - an attempt to keep a guy with 1700 rounds per gun x 8 .50 MGs on a P-47 from emptying his barrels on an enemy at 950 yards every time to get a kill.

At least that's what I think the reasoning may have been. I'm not saying it always works, or that it works at all. But like I said before it would be interesting to see if there has been a change in rounds fired/sortie, etc. since they made gunnery % affect your score.

Mike/wulfie

p.s. The K/T scenario can get just as complicated. When I'm 25,000' above you earning 1/100 of a beer for every B-17 and/or Lancaster III I shoot down, I get in 1 fight every 30 minutes. But it's me vs. 2 bombers and 2-4 fighters. So my K/T is going to be low - but it's never a case of what you are talking about - 'cherry picking' the edge of a big fight (which happens for sure). The only way to make score indicative of real skill (and we both agree on what 'real skill' means in AH from what I've seen, winning when you start at a disadvantage, etc.) would be to make the data collected for scoring prohibitively detailed - # of enemy vs. # of friendly aircraft within 3000 yds. of you at time of kill, etc., etc., etc.

Offline Pongo

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2002, 10:40:00 AM »
If they ever put gun reliability in the game it will be imediatly apparent why shooting accuracy is a stat.  What could be more fundimental. Your job is to hit other planes with your rounds..how often are you successful. Can it be gamed..yes. But it is only one of many stats used to establish the fighter ranking. Once a tour. take advantage of an opertunity to kill a goon with the cowl guns only..(especially the 7.92mm)

The best example of gaming accuracy I have seen was not in regards to fighters but bombers. I noticed the top bomber pilot had increadible accuracy.(this was probably 18months ago) and yet had shot only one plane down...I looked at his stats carefully and deduced that he was not defending himself. The loss of score to decreasing accuracy was more severe then the loss of score to getting shot down as kill to death was not used as a bomber stat but accuracy was....

Offline MANDOBLE

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2002, 12:33:22 PM »
%H, K/D, K/S, K/T, and whatever you want to include here.

Lets suppose a player fight two single vulch sorties, 30 mins each, as a result he has 24 kills, 12/1 K/D, 24 K/T, 12 K/S 30%Hit and few points. He we be the number one in all categories except points where he will be even the last one. That one has a lot of chances of being between the 20 first AH pilots in fighter score. If process is repeated for attack, bomb and GV with a pair of field captures he will be, probably, between 20 first overal AH pilots.

Offline eskimo2

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Why %Hit????
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2002, 09:51:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
%H, K/D, K/S, K/T, and whatever you want to include here.

Lets suppose a player fight two single vulch sorties, 30 mins each, as a result he has 24 kills, 12/1 K/D, 24 K/T, 12 K/S 30%Hit and few points. He we be the number one in all categories except points where he will be even the last one. That one has a lot of chances of being between the 20 first AH pilots in fighter score. If process is repeated for attack, bomb and GV with a pair of field captures he will be, probably, between 20 first overal AH pilots.


Some real numbers...

Lately, I have been flying almost exclusively in the CT.  In Tour 28 one night, the CT was dead and a squadmate wanted us to go into the MA.  I was the first in and did a quick PT sortie while the others logged in.  My squad was going to hit a base in Tiffies.  I launched a Chog from a closer CV to de-ack the base for them.  When I got there, I found the base had already been de-acked and the Fighter hangers and VH were down.  I had a 10 kill buff vulch and died (in attack mode).  I then realized that I had 1 GV and 1 attack sortie for that tour, so I switched to fighter mode and re-launched.  I had a combination air-to-air and vulch sortie in fighter mode that I landed (hot, with cons all over... hehe).  I was about to log, but thought that I should round out the night with a bomber milk-run sortie.  I was curious how I would end up ranking overall with only one sortie per category.  That was the only night that I flew in the MA in tour 28.  Just under 20 minutes of flight time.  Overall rank 478.  

Tour 28: Fighter
 [Flew and landed 1 vulch sortie that Tour, 7 min 58 seconds.)

(Kills / Deaths + 1) 8.0000 (6)

(Kills / Sorties ) 8.0000 (1)

(Kills / Hour) 60.12 (1)

(Hit percentage) 19.75 % (20)

(Points) 3618.5113 (1665)

Fighter rank: 150

eskimo