wtf is wrong with ya guys ?

[SKurj]

AKIron....


Most players don't give a rats arse about the strat system and never have, the center island of the isles map, A1 on uterus, are all examples of (to ALOT of players) what a fight/furball is...
Bases close together, creating the inevitable big clash.  These bases also have very little strategic value.

A mission of 20 planes attacking a large 'zone' field likely won't create a furball... it will create a flash in the pan that lasts 15 minutes until A) attackers wiped out and they then try attack somewhere else or  B) attackers get the vulch going ...  
No furball there...

A front line now thats what... 10x larger than any of us are used to...  spreads those few strategically aware players real thin...

Sure hope a solution can be found to the milkrunning issue ...


SKurj

[AKIron]

Skurj,

I agree, some maps create situations that result in furballs where many are forced to fight in a small area whether they want to or not. A few participants like only these. Most like them at least occasionally but I bet many don't want them all the time.

What's to prevent a challenge being issued over channel 1 for all interested to fight over a couple of fields? Everyone has the freedom to join in, still, it probably wouldn't be the big fight that those partial to furballs want. Not as often anyhow.

Maybe the map is too big. I think it's still too early to make that judgement though.

If what you say is true, that most don't care about strat, and I'm assuming you mean that most just want to dogfight and furball then a large map will actually facilitate that quite well. There will be plenty of places for a furball where there will be little interference from those looking for a strat game. Much more than a small map. There just won't be many places where a furball is forced on anyone.

I suggested before that perhaps this is what some are afraid of. No one will be forced to play the way only a few want to but can't because of their low numbers. As to their selfish desires I couldn't give a "rats ass".

[eddiek]

To those of you who have the end-all beat-all solution to what you think is wrong with the map and the game, spend some time making a terrain.  Lots of time and effort and thinking went into the one we are using with 1.10 right now.  If you're gonna criticize it:  a)constructive criticism helps more than negativity, make positive suggestions rather than rant about how hard it is to find a fight.  b)put forth some effort and time of your own, get busy with the terrain editor and come up with something that fits ALL of the criteria for AH.   Include features that will cover all of the wants and needs in AH, not just endless furrballing, nor strato buffing.  
The best HTC can do is reach a compromise, something that has a little of everything, for everybody.
I've found no problems at all finding fights since 1.10 has been out, and at the same time, I've had no problem doing strat stuff.  Anyone can do anything they want and not get in the way of others, not "ruin a good furrball", etc.
As Yeager is prone to say:  "Relax, it's just a game."

[lazs2]

akiron... what maps "forced" people to fight in a small area wether they wanted to or not?    Every map I have ever seen had fields that were deserted to take off from.    I never seen one map where you couldn't avoid all contact with the enemy if you desired except.... when you were down to 1 or two fields possibly.   I have been knight and rook when we were down to 4 fields and two of em were deserted of cons.

The good think about 1.10 tho.... is you are less likely to see a high alt milkrunner kill the fighter hangers at a field that is part of a furball.
lazs

[poopster]

I think what is prolly needed now is an interim map.

Good point. As the population increases, use a little more of it. In that way the change in player density would not be as drastic.

WB now I think is using a 256 map with a population of 70

[Dinger]

It is easier to be a critic than a builder.  But you don't have to make maps to make a contribution.  While simply expressing dissatisfaction (="Whining") about the map is not something I'd recommend, it does give some sort of feedback.
I think the map's pretty good.  But, as AKWabbit pointed out, it hadn't been tested under a load of 400 players.  Well, we've tested it now, and we can identify some shortcomings, such as A) field elevations are excessive and B) the current set up spreads the planes out too much, leaving vast tracts of undefended fields.  This setup favors the offense ("field capture fans") to such a degree that combat can be hard to find.
Heck I was on earlier,  and it was 20 against 0 where I was.  WHen my PC Locked up, it was 20 against 3.

We've identified the problems, and I think the solutions are not that difficult: reduce the elevations across the boards and change the default field arrangement so that instead of distributing each country's starting fields across three slices, make it "one slice, one country" to start with.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by lazs2
akiron... what maps "forced" people to fight in a small area wether they wanted to or not?    Every map I have ever seen had fields that were deserted to take off from.    I never seen one map where you couldn't avoid all contact with the enemy if you desired except.... when you were down to 1 or two fields possibly.   I have been knight and rook when we were down to 4 fields and two of em were deserted of cons.

The good think about 1.10 tho.... is you are less likely to see a high alt milkrunner kill the fighter hangers at a field that is part of a furball.
lazs

Mindanao comes to mind. While it is a great looking map and fun to fly there are bottlenecks that often cause very large furballs. If most want large furballs then it should only be necessary for someone to pick a couple of fields and spread the word.

[CptTrips]

reduce the elevations across the boards

I think thats doable.  I sent HT a new elevation file to look at that lowers the alts.

and change the default field arrangement so that instead of distributing each country's starting fields across three slices, make it "one slice, one country" to start with.

Yeah maybe.  If you moved the HQ around to behind each pizza slice the it would split out well that way.  Of course you lose all the canyon fights.  All the fighting will be across the channels.  Good or bad I dunno.

I think HTC should hold off a little longer before doing that to see if things improve abit as people learn their way around the map.  I think the new clipboard feature HT added today gos a long way to helping find a fight.  You cna now toggle off the icons and just look at the dar dots and sector counters to find a good density.  Then turn on the icons and find a field to get you there.  We should wait to see what effect that has before anything else.



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One other feature I'd like to see:  in addition to the generic "Base under attack" vox message, I'd like to see a system text message scroll that gives more detailed info like "Base 123 is under attack"  I never know how long the icons have been flashing, if its a new attack or old one.  If we got a textual message when the base first comes under attack it makes it easier to just ".move xxx" to what ever field the message said without all the juggling of zooming the map and trying to decipher where Ronnie:) was talking about.  That would go a long way to counter balance the milk running.  Most now have no idea whats getting hit.  By the time they figure it out the base is already gone.  Or they never bother zooming out to try and find which base exactly was underattack.  A specific report would be much more helpful and help to concentrate forces where needed.  It would make it much more likely people will jump over there to defend because they know exactly where to go.
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Wab

[CptTrips]

I'd like to see a system text message scroll that gives more detailed info like "Base 123 is under attack"

Actually to expand that....

I'd like to see a system text message scroll that gives more detailed info like "Base (5,17) 123 is under attack"

(5,17)  would be the sector
123 would be the field number

Wab

[Griego]

How about slicing the Pizza in half and only having 2 countrys. That way you'll get 150 to 200 on each side. Instead of 100 to 133 ppl. or less when there are less than 300 total online.This way even if you only have 100 ppl online you'll have 50 or so on each side hopefully. instead of 40,30,30 or even #'s.This would hopefully give enough enemys on each side to create a furball for those that want that and missions for those that want to hit strat and take bases.This would also end the two countrys picking on one and even thing out a bit so all stand a chance at survival instead of getting hit from all sides and only having 2 or 3 bases to up from.

                           Enters Dream State

 Then call it Allied and Axis.Split the plane set in that order.I know some of you aren't crazy about this but if you want to fly spit or a La7 or a 190  you would chose that side. Then if you wanted you could reduce the changing side to 1hr limit instead of 12hrs that it is now for those that like to fly all planes.

 Then you would have more enemys on each side which would lead to more attacking bases together. More furballs More historical aspect. You would get the best of both worlds IMHO.
This would set up a true front in which you could probably find a Furball... or you could do a sneak attack since it is a huge map.

Start a RPS of some sort with Perk point to the next years plane set on either side. That way people would actually be able to fly the early war planes without having to dodge the faster planes untill the Perks build up or that planes introduction to the war comes into play. Then you could fly all planes near the end of the war except the me262 leave that perked so only a few can fly it at the end of the TOD or when they have amassed the point necessary to fly it.

[Vermillion]

What's to prevent a challenge being issued over channel 1 for all interested to fight over a couple of fields?

Because it just doesn't work.  Last night during prime time on the east coast around 9:00PM (about 350-400 players online) my squad had about 5-8 people on.  We couldn't find a good fight so we decided to start an offensive against the Rooks in the SW quadrant (I think around 140ish) to force them to fight.  In fact we ended up with 5 or more AK's with us and a few other guys for a total of between 15-20 people at any given time.

Did the Rooks fight? At first, then as each one died, one by one they disappeared.  We started to split the entire quadrant and had drove a "dagger" of fields towards the edge of the map. What did they do?  They started trying to milkrun fields off to the sides instead of fighting.

So I got on Channel 1 and asked if they were ever gonna fight. Nothing. Then we started advertising which field we were gonna take next.  "Ok , we're gonna take XXX now".  Nothing.

This continued until the server spontaneously reset around 10:30PM EDT and we all logged in disgust at our wasted work.

And before someone loses his cool, this isn't an insult to Bish, Rook, or Knight.  All sides are fighting this map pretty much the same.

I like this map, it could be alot of fun if it had alot more players.  And I know what it takes to design maps, remember I designed the Central Med map which was the first 512x512 map.  Its a real Pain in the A## and takes a huge amount of time.

But right now, this map is just not reaching its potential in the MA. Given the size of the map,  the current player density, and 6+ fronts per side to spread everyone out even further.

[Apar]

Lazs,

To find a furball:

zoom map out completely (so you can see whole map), shut down all field icons, alt icon , etc. You'll be looking at a bare map with only sector bars. Now pic an 'high activety area' by zooming in and scrolling to it (with shift and mouse), turn on field icons and select the field you want to take of from.

I agree it is a bit more work to find the area you're looking for, but what ya expect with a 512X512 big map.

You can still find ya furnballs m8, especially around a CV that comes near an enemy field.
GL.

[lazs2]

apar and iron... there was exactly one good fite available if you were a knit last night and none the first nite.  We had people constantly scanning the map and asking on country and channel one.

fortunately... it was a very good fite between 87 and 95  fluffs could not ruin it no matter how they tried.    While I was happy with that I would prefer that there were a few other choices.  It seemed odd to have 40 fields and no radar and then get radar back only to find that with such a huge map.... no fights.  

87-95 all day every day can get a little boring but it sure beats nothing.   Maybe a few more more fields less than a sector apart that are both medium/large fields?  
lazs

[air_guard]

hmm I hope nobody was insulted by my post, didnt meant to do that.
ok have fun and shoot like toejame so I can surive

[AKIron]

Don't know what you guys consider a good fight but I was on for over 5 hours last night and never lacked for one. Sure was wishin' for a permanent squelch list though. If I ever consider helping build a terrain again someone please shoot me.