Poll: Half Willing To Suspend Freedoms

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Apache
No one has yet to answer Eaglers question. What rights are you talking about?

I'll start...

Privacy. After the attack, Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire called for "a global prohibition on encryption products without backdoors for government surveillance."

More privacy... Look at the USA PATRIOT Act. It's one ugly piece of work.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Privacy. After the attack, Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire called for "a global prohibition on encryption products without backdoors for government surveillance."

WOW, that one affects everyone of us, I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonite


note the key word "global" - you really think this has a snowball chance in hell to pass??

THis "loss of freedom" crap is just another political move by the left to try and lower this admins popularity so they have half a chance in Nov - and some of the conservatives are helping

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Eagler

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Privacy. After the attack, Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire called for "a global prohibition on encryption products without backdoors for government surveillance."

WOW, that one affects everyone of us, I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonite

First they came for the Communists,
  and I didn’t speak up,
    because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
  and I didn’t speak up,
    because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
  and I didn’t speak up,
    because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
  and by that time there was no one
    left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

---
I'm not speaking for me either. I don't use encryption. Maybe you see the point with this quote.

[Udie]

Originally posted by Apache
What do you guys thinkThomas Jefferson was saying?

 Personaly I think he knew that frim time to time the government would become out of control and that blood will have to be spilled to fix it. I think he knew that there would be weak people that would give up thier freedoms and that others would have to come in and fight to get them back.

 I also think that he knew that on his own man will chose evil ways over good/honorable ways and that the power granted to the government from the people would eventually get out of control, much like it has now.   I think he understood that once somebody has power they want more and don't want to surrender any of it....

[Eagler]

to save some of you time, I'll go ahead and post this site:

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_us.htm

"Grab your gun junior, we need to set this government Right again!"

LOL

[Sandman]

Note that these pages are for constitutional militias only, those dedicated to the preservation, protection, and defense of the Constitutions for the United States and of their state, open to all citizens so dedicated, regardless of race, color, gender, or views on nonconstitutional issues.

Sounds like a noble pursuit... Kinda like the ACLU.

BTW, Eagler. Have you noticed just how few militias there are? I'm surprised that California has so many compared to the other states.

[Udie]

Originally posted by Eagler
to save some of you time, I'll go ahead and post this site:

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_us.htm

"Grab your gun junior, we need to set this government Right again!"

LOL

 Thanks for the link,  I'm going to check in to joining.....

[Apache]

Udie, remember who the tyrannical government was when these great men were making such profound statements.

Said government wasn't trying to protect it's citizens from an outside, hostile force intent on killing us. Its goal was to usurp a fledgling country and to enslave (again) its people, thus the quote "Give me Liberty or give me death"!

[AKIron]

These are difficult times. I don't want to give up my freedom or take away anyone else's any more than anyone else. However, we already make concessions daily for security, i.e., you fly commercially you are going to be searched. That's what those metal detectors and xray machines do.

I'm not sure that I'm willing to wait until another large attack, maybe tens of thousands dead, before reexamining our security measures and perhaps increasing them.

Maybe I am willing to wait for another major attack, but I bet when it happens I'll be sorry I did.

[Shuckins]

While I don't think the current steps being taken by the administration to provide increased security against terrorism pose any great threat to the freedom of the average American, I do not think that we should be complacent about the matter.

A police will not spring into full-blown existence in an instant.  It will creep up on us one step at a time.  If we are not vigilant, we may not even hear it coming.


Regards, Shuckins

[MrBill]

paraphrase:
 We came to depend on out institutions, then we forgot how to do for ourselves. We were down and almost out, when John Conner taught us how to fight back. From Terminator.

 Large numbers of weak people within a society will always create the environment for oppressive governments to thrive.  But being human there will always be a few, then a group, then a flood to bring them down. the weak "always" become the majority of the casualties of the revolution.  Then the whole cycle starts over again.  Or at least it has happened that way repeatedly since the current cycle of recorded history.
 And yes I know that a number of you will need to have weak defined, society defined and numbers defined ad nauseam. Hye Noi

[Udie]

Originally posted by Apache
Udie, remember who the tyrannical government was when these great men were making such profound statements.

Said government wasn't trying to protect it's citizens from an outside, hostile force intent on killing us. Its goal was to usurp a fledgling country and to enslave (again) its people, thus the quote "Give me Liberty or give me death"!

 This is true, but I personaly don't see much of a diference in our current government.  I am taxed at a rate of 1/4 to 1/3 of my total income.  That leaves bairly enough for me to survivde and try and have a small amount of fun (read:persuit of happyness)  I have ZERO sayso in what they take from me and what they do with it once they've got it.  I disagree with probobly 75% of what they spend it on.  If I stop paying they take me to jail, that's not much diferent than the King sending his henchmen to burn my farm and kill my livestock.   The congress delegates it's athority to beaurocratic organizations that in turn make laws that I have to obey, and they were never even debated and when they do debate it's a series of 30 second soundbytes for the news back home.   The judicial system is a joke.  

 About protection. That's the last thing our government seems to worry about, at least until 9/11 and to me they seem to be treating that more as a power grab than anything else. And the American people seem all too happy to let them do it

[Rooster]

Originally posted by Eagler


Why are the hippies & minorities the first ones to jump up and down about their "freedoms"?

Not really sure Eagler, but it could be that those two groups you mention get to see how transient and subjective the "freedoms" that the majority hold to are.

[Karnak]

Eagler,

You're buying a line of roadkill and being told its on the level.

We are NOT in any greater danger from a terrorist attack now than we were before September 11th, 2001.  We are simply more aware of what the threat level is.  The fact that the government is trying to portray it as an all out war for our very survival is simply fear mongering to scare people into supporting whatever the government says is required to win.


Not one freedom should be given up, no Constitutional rights should be curtailed or altered.  None.  To do anything else is, in my opinion, cowardly and handing the terrorists a free victory.

[Eagler]

this country is so far left, no one no how is gonna take away your "freedoms" <- specific freedoms no one here are able to list

if you believe that, I think you are swallowing BS. BS being spewed by the enemies of this admin. You think it's bad now, wait til Oct, you'll think your living in Red China if you believe their hogwash.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. As it truly hasn't affected our life style, cept for maybe the few of you who maybe arab looking , I think your paranoid....

but hey, I'm worried about losing my retirement and you are worried about losing your un-named "freedoms". As long as we are worrying bout something, we should be happy