Another point for the no "God" crowd

[Kieran]

I wish it were as you paint it, Lazs.

The parent may then spend the money any way he wishes so long as it is at an accredited school.

Bang, you're dead. This is the crux of the matter. Accredited means you follow the state guidelines. The state is allowed to control education, like it or not. Remember, all powers not expressly given to the federal government belong to individual states. States are in competition with one another to produce the best schools (though it is unclear to me what standards are used to define "best").  States do not have to, nor will they relinquish control of the educational process. Blaming it on the teacher union (of which I am not a member BTW) is a red herring. The states follow the mold of the federal government of controlling all areas deemed public welfare- and education is certainly one of those areas.

States have fewer requirements on private education because they don't affect the standing of public schools. The state doesn't fund the private schools, therefore isn't accountable to the parents of the students in those schools. The second the state becomes accountable for private education through supporting them with tax dollars, you bet they will get concerned darned quick.

Vouchers are indeed controlled by the state. The state isn't going to hand them to just anyone for any reason. There will be strings, common sense tells you that. Don't think you're going to get an educational rebate and be told "spend wisely". There's the nasty problem of education being a requirement by law until a certain age, and parents that are irresponsible with checks can wind up costing taxpayers a huge amount of money (guess where they go to school after they blow that check? Someone will pay for that education). There is simply no way the states will ever hand hard cash over to the public, nor will they merely allow people to keep the money and pay for education. Chances are, the public would never even see the money, it would merely pass from state coffers to institutions of choice, and then only if the institution was satisfactory to state mandates.

Getting the picture?

It isn't a myth that vouchers are state money- they are. Right now a portion of your property taxes goes to public education. Vouchers merely take an amount that would have been spent on your child and allow you to spend that money on a private school. It is at best a tax rebate, except with strings. That money must be spent on education, and it must be spent on an institution that meets state standards. Well... there you go, the state calling the shots all around.

[lazs2]

No... i beleive you are dead.   Accredited is what it is right now.   private schools are being attended by students without the kind of state interferance you speak of.    I am aware of how the govenment gives out money with strings attached but.... I believe that with a new system as important and in the public eye as this one.... Those strings will be scrutinized by the public and.... The state will not risk pushing a majority of them because they can't stand the light of day.

you seem to be saying.... "we can't try vouchers because.... because.. well, if people start attending private schools in numbers the state will just figure out a way to foul it up as bad as what we have right now anyway."    Forgive me but that sounds like the protectionist teachers union stand of fear based self interest.  You are basically claiming that we better not fight em or because they are only allowing private schools right now because they (private schools) are not a threat.

Vouchers could esily be one of two things... they could be handed out by the state and feds as a rebate with no strings attached and that would work or... schooling taxes could be an enterprise fund seperate from the general fund.   ANY money including lotery or indian gambling or gas tax at the pump... that is set asside for "education" would be dispersed on a per student basis and that would work too... public schools could continue to be wasteful and radicalized at their peril.  or.....

We could simply allow the same machine that has ruined the public school system to ruin the private sector and give up with a "what's the use, just keep throwing the money at public schools and watch the slide downward... nothing to do about it.  it's a terrible sytem but nothing else can work... they are too powerful to fight"  .and of course.... you would be right... it wouldn't work

Where our arguement breaks down is....  You feel that a voucher system would simply be an extension of our failed system.   The state would just be controling more buildings.   I feel it would be a fresh start and each "program" that that the state wanted would have to be scrutinized by the voters and the talking heads on the news AND IN COURT.... I don't think state mandated programs would stand up to that kind of scrutiny.    I think people are smarter than you give them credit for.

Again... there is no reason for a voucher system school to be as bad as our current public schools.    there is no reason for a voucher school to be open only about half the time or to have 67% or higher "administration" or R.I.P...Retired In Place, teachers.   No reason for them to pay full time for part time workers or to have anything to do with the teachers union....least not as we know it.

The voucher schools themselves would publicly and in the legal system fight idiotic programs... It would be in their interest.. as it is... Public school don't fight these idiotic programs they encourage them... It is in their self interest to get more and more money and.... to do a worse job.

and.... once some bright boy crunches the numbers.... the taxpayer is gonna see that he was paying about 5 times more than he needed to in order to "save the children" by giving them an inferior education...  That will be the end of the public school machine as we know it.
lazs