Why?

[NUKE]

What is the point of "killshooter" anyway?

I mean, either you go realism and make friendly fire cause damage to any target, or you go "game-play" and friendly fire causes no damage.

Why the hell would friendly fire cause damage the object doing the fireing? Seems to be against both realism and fairness combined.

Killshooter creates an opening for teammates to fly in front of you  and perhapse steal your kill.

Just make friendly fire have no effect....what would be wrong with that?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by NUKE
Just make friendly fire have no effect....what would be wrong with that?

Lots.  And I bet your kills would be stolen even more if this were implemented.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[XNachoX]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


Lots.  And I bet your kills would be stolen even more if this were implemented.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Name some reasons please.  I'm curious.  Thanks.
--------------------

[Creamo]

edit- Was thinking no killshooter at all on initial post. I assume 1 reason for "no effect" would be you could just spray away through a guy in front of you to "steal" kills.

[Innominate]

Killshooter is an excellent idea.  It's friendly fire, without the teamkillers.  Friendly fire should exist, however, in a traditional form it can't in an online game.  Every system for dealing with teamkilling doesnt work.  Killshooter does.

That said, Killshooter in AH is kind of broken.  It should do to you the same amount of damage you inflict, not quadruple or whatever it does now.

[Karnak]

Killshooter creates a more realistic combat environment. Not in its effect on individual aircraft, but rather in the behavior of fighters in the macro environment.  It makes it so that you don't fire through friendlies.  Without killshooter people would just blaze away regardless of who was in front of them, and that resembles WWII air combat far less than does killshooter.

(I killshootered myself in a Spitfire Mk I last night.)

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by XNachoX
Name some reasons please.  I'm curious.  Thanks.

[/b]

If shooting friendlies had no effect, you'd have a lot of spray 'n pray by guys behind the closest friendly as they try to get a hit or two or three in.  Imagine a friendly 110G2 spraying like mad behind you as you de-wing an enemy plane... and the 110 gets the kill because he manages to land two 30mm into the enemy with impunity while shooting over your shoulder.

So what you're basically doing is trading one gamey thing for another.  Instead of facing the possibility of guys flying in front of your guns and "stealing" the kill by causing you to killshooter yourself, you'll have people spraying like mad to steal it from behind instead.  The current system at least punishes such dweebery and generally forces more realistic tactics.

If you disable killshooter entirely, I'd just shoot you out of the way and then steal your kill.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[XNachoX]

You make it sound like everyone in AH is out to get your kill .  Anyways.  The killshooter needs to be changed or taken out completely.  This BS that it does 4x damage as someone above said needs to be fixed.  Maybe 1/2 of the actual damage which would make it fair to both parties.  I don't see the point of having a broken killshooter in a small arena where you fight in large, uncontrolled dogfights.  
--------------------

[eddiek]

IMO, killshooter could be recoded to inflict zero damage, just like if you strafe a friendly hangar or other object.
All you would do is waste bullets/shells, with  no damage to either your countryman or the enemy.  
Is that what you were thinking about too, NUKE?

[Flossy]

Originally posted by NUKE
Just make friendly fire have no effect....what would be wrong with that?

As others have said, it would then be possible to steal kills from behind a friendly.... In AW, we had a similar system to Killshooter, Anti-frag, but as far as I remember it never worked properly - it was supposed to cause damage to the person shooting.  During the time I played at least, it seemed shooting at friendlies had no effect at all - if anything, I found it amusing to watch someone, from the tail-gun of a B17, coming up on our 6 o'clock spraying like mad!  I would try to tell them on channel 2 that they were wasting their ammo, and to go and kill some enemies instead.  

I recently had a few vehicle sorties where I seemed to die very quickly whenever I went to a remote spawn point.... there was what appeared to be an enemy vehicle parked right next to it and I was determined to get it, firing as soon as I spawned.... It was only after doing this several times, and getting shot down, that it dawned on me that I had somehow inadvertently set "no icons" and that I was in fact Killshootering myself!  

[Furious]

Consider killshooter remorse for hitting a friendly.


F.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by XNachoX
You make it sound like everyone in AH is out to get your kill .  

Not at all.  I'm addressing Nuke's original point, and he seemed quite frustrated at people "stealing" his kills.  As far as I'm concerned, if the fight is at a point where killshooter may become a factor, then "stealing" isn't even in the cards.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Wotan]

killshooter is the only real punishment to someone spraying and praying over your shoulder.

Folks already spray like mad already ready atleast I can fly into there bullet stream to kill umm.

[rabbit]

back in  the olden days... Mac AW

if ya fragged a friendly 3 times  you lost your ammo for 24 hours.

only happened to me once in 3 years.

after the first few times of fragging my wingie trying  to do rid to the bad guys and losing my ammo.  i learned not to  try and jump in and take  a shot with  a friendly in the way.

i think if ya did kill a friendly it didnt count as a death to that friendly either.  it sucked to get fragged but after awhile folks didnt  do it anymore.

the hardest thing that  i have had to get used to is the HO.  the HO was such a low percentage shot in MacAW that folks rarely took it.


yes there were a few jerks that would come up and try to frag from time to time but, they didnt last long  because of the old  AWAR's .there was always a monitor hanging  out and flying so  just comming in and fraggin  or talking smak would get you a nice ejection and if you kept it up you would lose your account.

 i heard that  there were problems  a few game monitors  on the PC side of the game but, we had  a very good bunch of trainers and  monitors on the Mac side.

i  think that it is  too bad that  we dont have that here.  i  know that everyone here tries to be helpful. but to have  a few folks that  can help you out on the spot would be  great. but i wouldnt want to see  a huge crowd of "AH-police"( for lack of a better word. ) comming  in and tampering with the natural envirnoment that we have here.   just someone  to help tone down the vulgarity a bit and help folks out that need  tech support on the fly.  as well as training.  i  woluld also limit these AH monitors to a  number of 10 or less never getting larger than that.  except  for the TA trainer pool.

 as well i would pick some of the long term vets  that really have a understanding  of gameplay.  and willing to set a positive example for the rest of us . ( sometimes we tend to get a lil out of hand ) and any AH tech would be held to a much higher standard than everyone else.  that takes a special person.  and it could not become a good old boys club either!


well i have babbled enough. and  i know there are alot of pros and cons with any solutions to situations.  some will like something and some will not but, talking about  it in this forum and finding  out what works out best for the community is what is most important.

/O

[Samm]

Originally posted by Wotan


Folks already spray like mad already ready atleast I can fly into there bullet stream to kill umm.

One big reason right there for changing killshooter . I say expand protect objects to include planes , then nobody can shoot through your plane and neither the shooter nor shootee gets damaged .