Fighting that D*mn N1k...

[SpinDoc1]

I have been playing now for about 2 years and have not been able to figure out the mystery that is the N1k. For starters I hate the thing, I will not fly it unless to try and figure out why it's so good. I have tried a lot of different barrel rolls, overshoots, and turns and can't beat it. I was amazed today when I met one in a head on merge (my airspeed was 250 he was climbing, I went past him and up and he reversed only to be right on my tail spraying and praying till he got me. Can someone please explain some simple defeat tactics for this crazy plane. Thanks in advance.

Jason

[SlapShot]

What were you flying ?

[bozon]

you want the secret to the N1K (or the spit V)?

try this offline or in the TA:
take off, full power no wep. now try to hold the nose as high as you can without stalling while the stall-buzzer is buzzing. I mean steady climb, not zooming.
now, look to the sides and back. you have turned into a helicopter, climbing 3000fpm at 80mph hanging on the prop.

the nik can do this with any loadout, including with the DT (first time i tried this i didn't even notice i had one). you can maintain a steady climb quite easily with the nose pointing so high you'll see nothing but sky.

now try with another plane, even good climbers like p-38, 109 . you just can't keep it that high and that steady.

this is their secret. they dont zoom - they levitate
to rope them you must make them pull the nose right up to 90 deg or they'll just hover there waiting for you.

Bozon

[HeLLcAt]

If you would like an in depth explanation on how to beat a niki email me at LmpBzktSk82004@yahoo.com, include the plane u have trouble with killing the niki in.

~BlueiceJ~

[RTR]

Ahhh... The N1k.....Great knife fighter. turns well, stall fights well, but not exceptionally fast and is a little fragile. DONT HO them they pack a whallop. even in a Spit I wont turn fight them. the secret is E management. If you get low on E a N1k will kill you. So... don't try to turn them and dont get slow. I find what is most effective is lots of speed and "piss off factor"...sooner or later they will make a mistake. Your job is to goad them into it. Dont fight thier fight. Make then fight yours.
First time I flew a N1k i landed 5 kills. They are a great plane, but have thier weakness,s too.
Patience young Skywalker...that is the key.

[akak]

Originally posted by bozon
you want the secret to the N1K (or the spit V)?

                            try this offline or in the TA:
                            take off, full power no wep. now try to hold the nose as high as you can without stalling while the stall-buzzer
                            is buzzing. I mean steady climb, not zooming.
                            now, look to the sides and back. you have turned into a helicopter, climbing 3000fpm at 80mph hanging on
                            the prop.

                            the nik can do this with any loadout, including with the DT (first time i tried this i didn't even notice i had
                            one). you can maintain a steady climb quite easily with the nose pointing so high you'll see nothing but sky.

                            now try with another plane, even good climbers like p-38, 109 . you just can't keep it that high and that
                            steady.

                            this is their secret. they dont zoom - they levitate  
                            to rope them you must make them pull the nose right up to 90 deg or they'll just hover there waiting for you.

                            Bozon

Yes you can...

P-38 prop hang


IMO, best way to kill the Niki is take it vertical if you're flying a plane with good vertical performance.  Or you can go for a deflection shot on a high speed pass as the Niki break turns.  P-38's are good at this.


Ack-Ack

[bozon]

akak this is not what i meant.
not a zoom climb, but a steady climb. here is an example:
i start with 50% and DT, right after take-off I pull up till the buzzer goes off. then I hold it steady. If you use the new film viewer you ca nsee that the speed is near 80MPH and the nose is pointing WAY up (yankee's drone goes under my aiming point) I then drop the DT and can squize a few more degrees.
you can go on climbing like that at 2500fpm forever, and this was without wep.
check out F3 view to see the angle the nose is pointing.

btw, the is NOT a niki flame!
my point is that in order to make it stall under you, you need to be right above it. just a steep climb or a spiral wont do.

Bozon

[SpinDoc1]

Thanks so much for all he advice, I will continue to try and beat the monster, and yes I agree with them packing a whallop, I will always break away if they attempt head on!

[BigGun]

Grab a FM2, get em to turn fight & pick em away with the 50 cals. FM2 will turn circles inside of Nik.

Not sure what plane you were in in first example. You said he was above you (more E or potential E). You were going 250 (slow) and went UP (lose more E and become slower). That is a bad combination, pretty much setting yourself up to get shot down.

[Urchin]

Spindoc.. I looked up your scores and it looks like your two favorite planes, for this tour at least, are the Typhoon and the F4U-1D.  

Neither one really turns well, so you have to be careful when you are fighting the N1K2.  

From your description (him diving on you head on) it is fairly safe to say he was going faster than you.  The best way to counter this is to climb into the attack, but not directly Head-On (so you did good there I think).  

After you make the initial evasion, check to see what the N1K2 is doing.  If he is racking his plane around hard, I'd turn back into him nose to nose.  The reason for this is that for a nose to nose merge (and that is what you are doing, even though the 'initial merge' has passed) speed plays a larger role in turning 'inside' another plane than turn rate (because speed has a great effect on turn radius, which is more important than turn rate for nose to nose turns).  Since you were going about 250 (if I recall correctly), you'd pop a notch of flaps, and turn back into him fairly hard.  Not hard enough to black out, but as hard as you can without stalling or blacking out.  If he does the same (pulls as hard as he can without stalling or blacking out), you WILL get your nose pointed at him faster than he gets his pointed at you.  

Now, this is where it gets interesting.  If it were me in your shoes, I'd hose him down good, and then try to disengage.  If you are in a Tiffie, you probably just killed him.  If you are in the F4U, he is probably still kicking and very pissed off at you now .

Now, since you just went nose to nose again, he has probably burned off some speed trying to pull his nose around for the shot after the initial miss.  This should leave you somewhat above him , albiet with probably slightly less speed than him (even after the inital hard turn, if he started at 400 or so he'll be around 250- and you'll probably be at around 200.  The good news for you is that you've managed to (somewhat) equalize your energy state with him.  If you fail to kill him after you get inside of him off the first turn, I'd disengage by flying as close to a opposite course to him as you can (I hope that is easy to understand, I am not explaining it very well).  You may want to dive some to improve your acceleration.  If he continues around in a 360 turn to come after you, he will burn off even more speed and hopefully lose all of the excess energy he started with.  At that point you can, erm.. extend () with impunity, since the Tiffie and F4U are both faster than the N1K2 is.  If he continues to chase you, start a very gently climb (keep your speed up) until you've got a two or three thousand foot altitude advantage on him, then go vertical.  If he follows you up, he will stall- if he doesn't you have just placed yourself on his high 6, which is an ideal place for you to be.

You will have a very tough time 'dogfighting' a N1K2 in the traditional sense in the F4U or Tiffie, but you can BnZ at will.  You can also try your hand at "E-fighting", but that is much more difficult to master than BnZ or traditional angles fighting (think dogfighting), and you will get killed.  Hell... I get killed trying to E-fight Spits in 190s and 109s.  It is more fun than BnZ though.. a LOT more fun.

Hope this helps, sorry for that one monster paragraph .

[SpinDoc1]

Great advice fellas, thanks so far:

Next question, especially for Urchin . I don't understand the concept of E-fighting, to me it seems it is the same as BnZ (how very naive I am). I was in an La5 in H2H the other day fighting a guy in the N1k. He was trash talking and I think I wanted to kill him so bad I kept screwing up. I would be WAY above him and after a few slashing passes would end up blowing all the E and trying to dive away. The N1k dives well so he gave me a good chase for a bit, but I escaped. I'm sure playing with the mouse doesn't help at all, but I have to wait for the new stick, the Wingman Extreme finally went to the crapper. Is there an easy way to learn the differences between E-fighting and Boom and Zoom? I don't see too many posts describing these in depth. Thanks again!

Jason

[akak]

Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
Great advice fellas, thanks so far:

Next question, especially for Urchin . I don't understand the concept of E-fighting, to me it seems it is the same as BnZ (how very naive I am). I was in an La5 in H2H the other day fighting a guy in the N1k. He was trash talking and I think I wanted to kill him so bad I kept screwing up. I would be WAY above him and after a few slashing passes would end up blowing all the E and trying to dive away. The N1k dives well so he gave me a good chase for a bit, but I escaped. I'm sure playing with the mouse doesn't help at all, but I have to wait for the new stick, the Wingman Extreme finally went to the crapper. Is there an easy way to learn the differences between E-fighting and Boom and Zoom? I don't see too many posts describing these in depth. Thanks again!

Jason

Go to NetAces and read some of the lectures written by Rocketman and BulletHead on Energy fighting, probably some of the best write ups for online combat sims.


Ack-Ack

[bockko]

akak is right, rocketman's descriptions are great. Also check out the book "Fighter Combat" by Robert Shaw - you can get it at major book stores. Shaw was a Navy pilot who wrote the best 'guide' to fighter tactics and acm. B/Z style fighting is just that - buzzing through, keepin your e; e fighting is sorta like b/z, with the intent of making the other guy burn off his e faster than you burn off yours, then you stickem with a bit of angles fighting. In b/z and e fighting you start with the e advantage and try to keep it throughout the fight. Of course, angles fighting is turn fighting or 'furballing', which is the most fun but will result in your death when the #'s go against you or when the b/z-e crowd shows up...and good luck with the mouse! Go straight out and get a new stick!!!!

later

[bockko]

colorado springs? coolness....how's that golf course out there?

[SpinDoc1]

Thanks guys. It's interesting you mention Bob Shaw, I met him last year he came to one of our physics classes at the Air Force Academy and spoke a lot about fighting and even used the planes on the tips of the sticks to illustrate. Preon1 was the one who organized the visit and it was great to see him and hear him talk about his book. I will pick it up and read those articles.

p.s. - I don't play golf, but my guess is the course is looking brown and dry, it hasn't rained much here at all!

Thanks again everyone,

Jason