Author Topic: War on Drugs  (Read 3320 times)

Offline Saw at Work

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War on Drugs
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2002, 09:14:13 AM »
Swizerland has a pretty proactive (heavy)Drug program. Even if that's not the golden solution some here are waiting fore, it sure is a better option than trowing users out in jail...

oh yeah... I almost forgot :D

Offline popeye

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« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2002, 09:22:22 AM »
War makes the government more powerful.  Citizens are willing to surrender their money and their liberties to fight a war.  If there isn't a real war to fight, the government will invent one.

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm
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Offline hblair

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War on Drugs
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2002, 09:25:14 AM »
Ok, where do I start..

All the people I ever knew who smoked pot on a daily basis were slackers, as was I for that 10 or so years I "partied". Now I'm sure there are some corporate CEO's who smoke weed occasionally as some have claimed on this board. Perhaps they were employed at Enron or Worldcom (sorry, had to do that:))

It's people who smoke weed when they have kids in the house that worry me. And the ones who try to justify it in some bassackwards way like explaining to their kids "The laws of this country are wrong therefore it's ok for me to break them in the privacy of my own home and risk going to jail because smoking this weed and feeling really funky is just THAT important to me" or whatever words they use. :)

As far as legalization of the drugs, I don't know. It may be a surprise to you guys that I think it might work to legalize marijuana (might! :)). I agree that alcohol almost surely wrecks more lives than weed, and it is legal. I'm not condoning the use of pot. I don't use it and I'll try to influence my kids in a way and teach them that they shouldn't need to get buzzed to enjoy themselves.

In closing I'd like to say...

Stoners!:cool:

Offline AKSWulfe

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War on Drugs
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2002, 09:30:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
There is a way to cut demand for drugs, its called education. The current drug users are a lost cause, screw them. Best to target the kids and make sure they never try it in the first place.


That only works when you don't use scare tactics, kids see right through that and ignore any good message that there could possibly be in that so called "education".

Kids are curious, and if a dealer is pushing their way... the current "education" ain't gonna make 'em stop and think twice.

I'm not calling for legalization of all drugs, but a far different way of dealing with drugs, dealers, and drug users/abuers is definitely called for right now.
-SW

Offline SC-Sp00k

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Lets examine European Policy then.
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2002, 09:51:25 AM »
This is from a BBC report on the Netherlands. It results from an analysis of Britains consideration of a similar Drug legalisation scheme.

Quote
Drug-related crime

The Netherlands' policy is aimed at providing a safe environment for cannabis users and breaking the link between drugs and crime.

But it has found drug-related crime in general - such as burglary to pay for drugs - stubbornly refuses to go away. Adults who have tried cannabis  
Denmark 30%+
UK 20%+
Spain 20%+
Netherlands 15%+
France 15%+
Germany 10%+
Greece 10%+
Sweden 10%+
Finland 10%+
Belgium -10%
Germany -10%
source: EMCDDA
 
Moreover, the coffee shops themselves have brought "nuisances", such as litter, noise and falling prices for nearby property.

However, VWS says the latter problem is comparable to that caused by normal licensed bars, or areas where tourists congregate.

"Tourists are always noisy," says Mr Brugdink. "The coffee shops bring no extra trouble like that."

And he points out that local authorities can close down any shop as soon as they feel it is becoming undesirable.

Smuggling

Anti-drug campaigners argue that the Netherlands has become a major port and trade route through which international smugglers reach other European countries.  
Amsterdam coffee shops: Magnets for tourists, but not problem-free
 
Dutch authorities admit that drug seizures in recent years have risen, especially for heroin - seizures of which doubled between 1997 and 1998, for example.

But Mr Brugdink says this is mainly because of the Netherlands' general trading and port status, not because of its drugs policy.

"We have no ambition to be a major port or exporter of drugs to Europe," he says.

"But if you are one of the main countries for trade, it is bound to happen. If you have the biggest port in the world, you are also going to have some of the worst drug smuggling."

The Dutch authorities are at pains to point out that the main part of their drugs policy is not, as many Britons would assume, its coffee shops.

To the Netherlands, most important are its prevention schemes, such as anti-drugs education projects, and medical care and rehabilitation schemes for addicts.

"If you compare our policies with those of countries at the other end of the spectrum, like Sweden for example, the results are more or less the same," says Mr Brugdink. "But the health of ours is better."


What do we note about the above. Many points. Some positive for both sides. If I may choose a couple for my side of the arguement...

1. A safe environment for Cannabis Users and a break away from the connection to Crime.

LOL.  Government sponsored Heroin Injection Rooms argued the same points. Dismal failure. Now instead of druggies shooting up in their homes and falling unconscious to their floor, we find them cluttering up the pavements in front of kids and the general public.  Strangely, they still seem pretty close to Crime when their straight and get picked up climbing through your windows.

Lesson: Making them safe, doesnt make YOU safe.

2. Drug related property crime, "strangely" refuses to go away.
Really?  Now theres a revelation. LOL.  Methadone was introduced to wean Heroin users and is distributed in a controlled environment.  What happened?  The junkies hid their "Done" and sold it out on the streets to young kids and junkies looking for an xtra high so they could support their own habits with Heroin again, often supplementing the Done with the Hammer for that little xtra buzz.

Lesson: Drugs= Property Crime.  Giving it to them wont change a thing.

3. Benno Brugdink, a spokesman for the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport (VWS), which co-ordinates Dutch drugs policy, says that Tourists are to blame for the woes of their coffee shops and hence the reason they lowered the 30 gram sale limit to encourage local supply only.

How very convienant.  Why were the Tourists there I wonder.
In my Country Australia, in Canberra, instead a prosecuting minor infractions of Marijuana offences like in the old days, we now have the option of giving $100.00. fines to those in possession of 25 grams or less or in possession of 5 plants under the same weight for personal use.  What happened?  Every drug crazy hippy in Australia wanted to move to Canberra because they were in the belief (many still are) that Cannabis was legalised here.

Lesson:  Drugs bring Hippys. :(

Offline Manedew

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War on Drugs
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2002, 10:11:59 AM »
hopefully some day some of you will know enough to know nothing ... if not try some weed it'll help you forget.  

a good deal of  weed US comes from canada... we outta send our armies there ..." takeing it into other countries"....
or wait did you mean a latin country? Eagler
guess it's ok as long as the country's brown/ or poor  right?


Sooner you realize you don't know crap, the better .. maybe you'll stop trying to tell people how to live thier lives ... if you want to do that .. have kids.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2002, 10:31:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Manedew
hopefully some day some of you will know enough to know nothing ... if not try some weed it'll help you forget.  

a good deal of  weed US comes from canada... we outta send our armies there ..." takeing it into other countries"....
or wait did you mean a latin country? Eagler
guess it's ok as long as the country's brown/ or poor  right?


Sooner you realize you don't know crap, the better .. maybe you'll stop trying to tell people how to live thier lives ... if you want to do that .. have kids.


Canada is fair game as is the commie country of California :)

bong away boy, bong away ... you'll grow up one day
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Offline mora

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« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2002, 10:41:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Holland - Legalized.

Belgium - Legalized.

Denmark - almost legalized, in some parts you can smoke it in the streets without any conflicts with police.

England - almost legalized, in some parts you can smoke it in the streets without any conflicts with police.

I wont name the obvious ones but wich have i missed?


Well pot laws actually go like this in the EU:

Sweden

Finland

Greece

France

All criminalized

Everywhere else it's decriminalized or overlooked not legalized. In Holland selling small amounts in coffee shops is overlooked by police. Pot is also decriminalized in Swizerland and it is being sold in small shops for decoration purposes.:)

Btw. Holland has  one of the lowest crime rates in Europe.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2002, 11:02:59 AM »
Canada - almost legalized, in some parts you can smoke it in the streets without any conflicts with police.

Apparently some of the best pot in the world comes from BC.  And I've heard a hell of alot of it is exported to the US.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2002, 11:48:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Yeah, cigarettes and smoking sure proves that point. And after you have made it legal, will we start seeing cocain-commercials?

 There is no highly financially motivated professional pusher trying to personally hook our kids on tobacco or alcohol.

 As far as I know, tobacco advertising is illegal in any form in US.
 I am pretty sure that it is illegal to advertise any drink stronger than beer on TV though not in adult magazines.

 miko

Offline senna

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« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2002, 11:56:47 AM »
No dont leaglize POT. Sorry to the guys who's hobbies I'm standing in the way of. Still you will persist :D enjoy. I think we got enough people standing outside of Seven/11 on a daily and nightly basis. Do we also want a buncha pot smokers out there with them. For once I wanna see Met-RX made illegal. Lord forbid you will say NO to a MetRX user asking for change.

:D

Offline mora

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« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2002, 12:01:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by senna
I think we got enough people standing outside of Seven/11 on a daily and nightly basis. Do we also want a buncha pot smokers out there with them.:D


I know that is sarcasm but I have to add that the US has a higher rate of pot smokers than any European country.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2002, 12:05:03 PM »
I'm one of the 5%, Eagler.  I've had -a- joint in my life.  Decided it wasn't worth it for me, same with cigarettes.

beer on the other hand...  mmm, good stuff.  I brew my own using grain/malt kits and it's fun and very tasty.  :)
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Offline Apache

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« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2002, 12:16:00 PM »
Drop the war on drugs huh.

So, controlled substances are such because, what, someone didn't like the color? They smell bad?

Could it be maybe that the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention Act has a more legitimate reason for it's existence than filling the coffers of law enforcement agencies as some of you think?

A most emphatic yes!

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #74 on: August 01, 2002, 12:31:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 There is no highly financially motivated professional pusher trying to personally hook our kids on tobacco or alcohol.


You know, if you remive the "personally trying" part, that sounds awfully lot like the tobacco/liquor companies.