Author Topic: Urgent advice needed - very serious post.  (Read 1965 times)

Offline Kratzer

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Urgent advice needed - very serious post.
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2002, 07:53:05 PM »
Kids don't act out because their parents aren't beating them - they act out because of toejamty parenting.

Scaring your kids into submission might work, but it's the easy way out.

Same thing as people hitting their dogs.  I've never hit mine, and she's the best behaved, sweetest german shepherd you will ever meet.

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2002, 08:02:07 PM »
Quote
Same thing as people hitting their dogs. I've never hit mine, and she's the best behaved, sweetest german shepherd you will ever meet

(im only 14 but i think this needs some talk from a childs veiwpoint)

this has been said bye every dog owner ever but dogs still attack people


there is no reason to spank your child except in extreme cases but when you have to first explain to them what they did was wrong why it was wrong.

for the most part parents should just send there kids to there room until the kids calmed down and thought about what theyve done. thats what my parents (still do for me)

now my little brother was rarely ever sent to his room andhe was never spanked. my dad has yelled at him a couple times but thats it. he is now the worst behaved little snothead i have ever met.


but as to the original question :

dont phone social services until it happens again. from what you said shes a military wife and was at the time over concerned about her other kid and people DO NOT act rationally or the way they would normally when there under a lot of stress and their kids hurt. but if it happens again for no apparent reason THEN phone social services.

Offline Kratzer

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Urgent advice needed - very serious post.
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2002, 08:15:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon

this has been said bye every dog owner ever but dogs still attack people


If I'd said this as an excuse right after my dog attacked someone, then you might have a points... as it stands...

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2002, 08:29:23 PM »
Interestingly enough, seeing eye dogs aren't trained using punitive methods.  Nor are they rewarded with food.  When they do something right they are shown love and attention.

Offline Durr

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« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2002, 09:20:10 PM »
I was raised in the South mostly, where corporal punishment is the normal way of doing things.  I never met anybody that seemed the worse for this.  I myself was spanked many times as a punishment, both in school and at home.  I seem to have turned out fine.  

Practidally all the kids I have known that have turned out badly were not disciplined effectively at home.  I am trying to think of exceptions as far as people that I have known.  I can only think of perhaps one person that was spanked as a child, that refused to change his behavior, and persisted in bad behavior, and even he finally straightened out as an adult for the most part.  On the other hand, I have known plenty of kids that were not disciplined that went bad.  There were plenty of kids that were not spanked that were good kids for the most part, but every juvenile delinquent I have known grew up in an atmosphere of no discipline, or no love.  Both are necessary, discipline and love.  One without the other, will result in failure most of the time.  There are always exceptions of course, and there are kids that will have everything going for them, and they grow up in homes with lots of love and strong discipline, but still go bad.  These are the exceptions, and not the rule.  

We have more problems with violence today than we ever had in the past in this country, and less people spank their kids today than did 100 years ago.  I do not draw the conclusion that this is a cause/effect relationship, but I still think that its interesting to note that if spanking has such harmful effects, and causes violence, why didnt we have much worse problems in say the 19th century US, when practically everybody spanked their children.  

Spanking as a method of punishment, when applied reasonably can be quite effective.  This is not child abuse.  Harming a child IS child abuse.  Beating a child qualifies as abuse.  Spanking does not.  There are some kids that will not respond to any lesser punishment.  Of course there are kids that will not even respond to this, but I think that these cases are rare.  

I think that keeping discipline in the home is a matter of having clear rules, with well-defined punishments.  The punishments must be consistently carried out or the effect is lost.  

This is an issue that will always be debated I suppose, with those that were raised in homes that did not spank, not able to see the other viewpoint, and vice versa.  I think that calling it child abuse is pretty ridiculous though.  There are plenty of us that were raised in homes and were spanked regularly as a punishment, and we turned out fine, and we love our parents.  We were not harmed in any way by this experience, on the contrary, I feel that I would not have as much self-discipline as an adult if I had not been strictly disciplined as a child.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2002, 09:40:39 PM »
I spanked my kids, and I'm glad. GLAD!, do you HEAR! :D

Honestly, some of you guys are out to lunch on the spanking issue. Big difference between spanking and beating, though apparently this is escaping some...:rolleyes:

I love the parents that brag about never spanking their kids... and just laugh to myself when the kid tells the parents what they can do with their "instructions".

"Now Johnny, Mommy doesn't like it when you talk that way. I'm very disappointed!"

"So?"

"Johnny. Is there something wrong? Have I made you angry? Is this my fault?"

"I dunno. Who cares? Leave me alone!"

"Johnny, talk to Mommy. What have I done wrong?"



Of course, my all-time favorite was the grandmother trying to talk to her grandson, who was leaning back on the bench and kicking at her face with the heels of his feet. Nah, he didn't need a spanking, he needed more hugs. :rolleyes:

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2002, 09:48:59 PM »
Tell me, Thrawn, can a seeing-eye dog learn how to manipulate your emotions, lie, or endanger itself by doing things behind your back that it understands you do not want it to do... you know, precognition?

Does the dog have the ability to willingly hurt others for the sheer thrill of watching others suffer?

Does the dog's cognitive ability lag significantly behind its physical growth to the point it can walk into traffic without understanding why it is dangerous? (Yes, but you can chain the dog up)

Spanking has its place. Children outgrow the need for it, and somehow survive to become worthwhile citizens with a proper perspective on life and justice.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2002, 09:50:19 PM »
I do not spank my kids and I'm glad. Glad!

I consider my children to be some of the best behaved children I know.

Go ahead and beat your kids if it makes you feel better. There are alternatives and notion of "spare the rod, spoil the child" is not necessarily true.
sand

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2002, 10:02:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Does the dog have the ability to willingly hurt others for the sheer thrill of watching others suffer?


No they can't.  But I wasn't the one that introduced the dog/child analogy.


Quote
Spanking has its place. Children outgrow the need for it, and somehow survive to become worthwhile citizens with a proper perspective on life and justice.


How do explain the fact, that people can also raise children, to become worthwhile citizens with a proper perspective on life and justice, without once spanking them?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2002, 10:02:44 PM »
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Go ahead and beat your kids if it makes you feel better. There are alternatives and notion of "spare the rod, spoil the child" is not necessarily true.


I'm simply not enlightened enough.

I don't really beat them so much, as I merely lock them in the basement. They yell a little bit, but as long as I toss a piece of meat down there once in a while, they seem a bit quieter. Of course, before the younger one grew, the rats took advantage of their numbers and gave the girls a run for their money, but now they are more of a dietary suppliment than anything else. I will admit their pasty skin is not very attractive, but I like to think of it as me protecting them from the melanoma they would certainly catch if they were out in the sun.

Now, if I have a really bad day at work I might go down and "hit the heavy bag" for 15 minutes or so, and top it off with 10 minutes on the "speedbag" (that little one can really run now!), but this doesn't happen all that much. Besides, I have the wife upstairs, and I don't have to bend over to beat her. It's easier on my back that way.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2002, 10:03:41 PM »
LOL... :)
sand

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2002, 10:03:57 PM »
Oh fer krise sakes! Why do these things always polarize like its all or nothing?

I almost never swatted my kids, and it worked for me. I spent 5 years teaching special ed, and training people how to apply behavior modification. Anyone who has experienced this will tell you that positive reinforcement is preferable, and that negative reinforcement is very powerful.


But if you really want to screw with someone's psyche, raise them in Canada :p .

Offline Toad

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« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2002, 10:08:25 PM »
Ever seen a canine mom discipline her kid?

She looks him right in the eye and they have a little "doggie discussion" in ultra gentle tones... whines, whimpers and short cute barks. She reasons with the pup in "dog language". Then, when the pup understands, they both wag their tails and lick each others faces.

There ya go. Mother Nature knows best. ;)
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2002, 10:11:49 PM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Oh fer krise sakes! Why do these things always polarize like its all or nothing?

I almost never swatted my kids, and it worked for me.


Read:

almost never = often
swatted = beat with meat hooks
my kids = other peoples babies

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2002, 10:17:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn


Read:

almost never = often
swatted = beat with meat hooks
my kids = other peoples babies


Durn canadians can't take a stinkin joke! I work with some of them too! They all have heads that open in half and they fart constantly!!