Author Topic: FW190 and the insta flip flopping (Read 1441 times)

Naudet · « **Reply #30 on:** August 12, 2001, 06:14:00 AM »

Guys what about thinking of this prob in a completly different way.

I mentioned it before and will do it again, Fighter Ace has developed a kind of konstant data stream method that doesnt allow for any warp moves due to a specif number of refresh time a sec.
In FA the flight path is constantly transmitted, there are no 3-4 times a second position data transfers. Leads to very smooth gameplay, warps only appear through lost packages but not to moves being to fast to track for the connection.

Before altering all planes to fit the gameplay, maybe the gameplay can be modified to fit the necesseties off a WW2 flight sim.

DanielMcIntyre · « **Reply #31 on:** August 12, 2001, 07:17:00 AM »

Never seen flip flop either or least I did'nt recognize it as such. Think I'
ve done a few a couple of times, manuevering and stall and suddenly facing other direction? But is'nt this normal, stall one wing the other unstalled wing flips you around like crazy?
Don't see how this would benefit anyone thou, usually die soon afterwards.

Vulcan · « **Reply #32 on:** August 12, 2001, 07:30:00 AM »

Nah thats complete different to what Yeagers doing.

What I did was induce a high-speed-stal/spin. In the tiffie if u flick a little rudder and a little vator at speed the thing flicks into a stall -> then spin real fast. Its something I rarely do, like when a 190 is right up my arse and I've got nowhere to go.

For a least a few seconds you will have a clear easy shot of me. Then I also end up blowing 5k in alt and speed.

I believe some aircraft in AH can recover rather fast from such moves (ie spit, hawg, and niki). Tiffie certainly doesn't, its a once only and with alt to spare type move.

Now what Yeager was talking about was the high 190 roll rate coupled with porposing vs net lag.

Usually when I see it I blow thru, the guy ends up low and slow pretty quick. Once the 190 is slow they can't do that toejam.

p.s. zig sometimes I spin out like that by accident - can't remember if it was on purpose or not so don't get ur knickers in a twist.

Quote

Originally posted by Zigrat:
the other day vulcan did that gay bellybutton flip stuff in a tiffie

basically, all u gotta do is stall the plane to flip flop anyplane

this of course bleeds off alot of e tho

personally what i hate most is the bastards using -3g manouvers. irl thatd give u a hemmorage. id like to see stronger consequences for negative g.

zapkin · « **Reply #33 on:** August 12, 2001, 11:02:00 AM »

Im really good at spinning out of control in a F4-1C...Its a great evasive manuever...until...I hit the ground

SKurj · « **Reply #34 on:** August 12, 2001, 01:08:00 PM »

I see flip floppin 190's all de time, and I have a good connect.

SKurj

Wilbus · « **Reply #35 on:** August 13, 2001, 05:09:00 AM »

Spin is a great way to get away, it throws the plane in all directions in AH (from the other guys end) and thus makes it hard to hit from close distance.

I've never seen a flip flopping 190, I fly 190's and I fight 190's, I have never seen a flip flopping spit either.

Yeager, your "all you nazi guys" crap is just stupid, you know very well that non (I think, not me anyway) of us are nazis and we only fly the GERMAN planes because we like them, and like the different way and tactics it takes to survive.

Nothing wrong with the roll rate of it, lower it and you will see 80% of the LW Population leave within a week, maybe this is just what you want?

Daff · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2001, 06:56:00 AM »

"Minus 5 Gz for 5 seconds is probably the upper limit of tolerance; this level has seldom been achieved by volunteer subjects."

As with positive G's, you can also build a tolerance against negative G's. I've seen a G-meter after a unlimited aerobatics session pegged at +10/-8.

Daff

Toad · « **Reply #37 on:** August 13, 2001, 07:19:00 AM »

Peggin' it momentarily and holding it for 5 seconds might be two different things don't you think?

hazed- · « **Reply #38 on:** August 13, 2001, 10:26:00 AM »

ok you have probably heard about the fw190a3 that landed in wales giving the allies a chance to fly and test the fw190a3 verses the current allied planes at that time?
well here is an excert from 'fw190 in combat' by alfred price in which the conclusions of the test pilots in those trials are published:

'the flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight.The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds.The fact that the fw190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point.The intitial acceleration is very good and is particularly noticable in the initial stages of a climb or dive.Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control.It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when veiwed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made.'

this is the conclusion of the enemy of this aircraft remember and it is known that the engine of the captured fw190 wasnt running correctly because of the sparkplugs(later corrected by using plugs from a downed D0217).

Sounds to me as if what we see in AH is tame by comparison to what these guys wrote.there are comparisons between the fw190 and the spit VB ,spitIX ,mustang 1a ,p38f ,4 cannon typhoon, and prototype griffon spitfire, all aircraft being flown by experienced pilots.

I think to start toning down the roll on the 190 even more would be absolutely wrong and in my opinion would ruin the game for me.
I have played AH for ages and i have hardly ever seen these warp rolls.I have seen warps from all the planes but its just a bad connection as far as im concerned.Sorry but leave the 190 roll alone or if it is reduced ALL other planes should get the same reduction!

P.S. drop the NAZi crap please yeager, i dont think its funny even in a joke which i really hope it was.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]

mrfish · « **Reply #39 on:** August 13, 2001, 10:44:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
I've never noticed the 190's doing excessive flip flop, always looks fluid to me.

yeah i'm a little embarassed to say i haven't either - though the move sounds like a keeper!

Nifty · « **Reply #40 on:** August 13, 2001, 11:10:00 AM »

I've seen lots of planes (not just the 190) do the flip flop warp. Usually, the 190 just looks like a floppy fish to me when he does it, but doesn't really warp. I laugh at them for the most part.

I rarely see 190's in the MA anyways, so I don't have much to base it on.

Yeager · « **Reply #41 on:** August 13, 2001, 11:33:00 AM »

I can tell when Im behind some new dweeb or a real hot and fancy T&B gameboy inexperienced in 190s. They try flying it like a N1K or a Spit, pulling back on the stick and they just crap all over themselves. It looks so bad, it laughable.

I cant believe anyone with anytime in this game can honestly say they have NEVER seen 190s flip and flop about. But hey, whatever.

Whats the point in having a plane that can twirl 30 times a second when no FE on earth will paint it more than 15 times a second.

190 Roll Rate needs to be tempered and to all you poor little bastards that get red faced and teary eyed when poor little Yeager uses the VERBOTTEN "N" word, cry me a RIVER you stinking PUKES! LMAO...

Hehe.......err........DOH!

Y

funkedup · « **Reply #42 on:** August 13, 2001, 12:18:00 PM »

I have seen 190's flip flop about. But most of the time it isn't so warpy that I can't fight them. Maybe if the arena was full of them I'd notice it more. Either way, I'd hate to see AH cripple the FM's for gameplay like another sim.

Maniac · « **Reply #43 on:** August 13, 2001, 01:22:00 PM »

I tought that AH didnt have micro warps, never seen this in AH...

Regards.

lazs1 · « **Reply #44 on:** August 13, 2001, 02:21:00 PM »

hazed... you should read the comparisson of a perfect A5 and a Hellcat and a Corsair. The Corsair could roll with the A5. Corsair had mechanicaly boosted ailerons and they were considered the best of all WWII ac. Basically the test showed that if you were in a 190 you had best hope you didn't run into a corsair or a hellcat.

I have seen a lot of planes verge on a warp roll but the 190 crosses the line. It is able to do the "floppy fish" or fish out of water jig till you run out of ammo. the move takes no skill at all and if you have been at the other end of it.... you will be a trifle disgusted. I don't know what the answer is but the Hog should roll as good as any 190 by most accounts. If the 190 roll rate was slowed to the Hog speed then things would be pretty good gameplay and comparisson wise.
lazs