Mac version in the Future?

[Merlin]

Again, Pyro's answer is one of resources. It's easy to sit in judgement of their decision making and say that you would do it different. If money and programming were no issue they would probably approach it different too.

HiTech is comfortable with D3D and the PC programming environment. Their primary goal at this time has to be a revenue generating product that wins acceptance from as broad a market as possible - within the comfort zone and financial constraints of the organization.

Once the PC community has jumped on board and the cash flow begins to cover expenses and generates a little excess, they can start looking at broadening their base. The simm community seems to constantly overlook the business basics on these boards.

Their one and only goal right now needs to be developing a game with superior playability that is an evolution from Warbirds. By focusing on attracting a good portion of the current WB player base to AH they will then have the freedom to open new doors. I personally would rather see an outstanding FM with rock solid connects and a better twist on strat than awesome graphics.

<S> Merlin

[miko2d]

 Why don't you Mac guys ask dear Steve Jobs or whoever is currently in charge of Apple to licence and reproduce the current most widely used graphical interface - Direct3D. It is not like they developed OpenGL - SGI did it and board manufacturers licensed it to run on PC and Mac and other platforms.
 Then you would be able to play most of the games available on PC and maybe Mac's market share will go up.

 miko--

[buba]

How about a outstanding FM with rock solid connects and a better twist on strat with OpenGL awesome graphics.
Check out what those other Warbirds guys are doing.

Direct 3D, yah lets take 2 steps backwards  and run that stuff. Then lets run windose 98 , or for that matter 2000 instead of OS X.

Gees you guys see this is a Mac thread do you have to come in here with your PC crap. We aren't pushing Mac stuff in you threads, don't bring this board to that childish platform war crap. Its irrelevant.
If you know anything ,or even if you don't, just look at the new games coming. The ones that have the best looking graphics are going to OpenGL.
It just works / looks better.
Just look at the d3d terrains.

[fats]

--- Buba: ---
If you know anything ,or even if you don't, just look at the new games coming. The ones that have the best looking graphics are going to OpenGL.
--- End ---

That is not correct. The upcoming PC game called Max Payne uses D3D and IMO looks superior to Q3Arena, even if just in those screenshots released to public thus far.

You obviously don't know much about D3D or OpenGL. To hold WB or AH's screenshots as the all that D3D can be is silly. Good looking D3D terrain? Check out Motocross Madness. That's last winter's game but has very nicely done landscape that is visible to the distance.


~/fats

[Surfer]

Fats wrote:

>You obviously don't know much about D3D or OpenGL. To hold WB or AH's screenshots as the all that D3D can be is silly. Good looking D3D terrain? Check out Motocross Madness. That's last winter's game but has very nicely done landscape that is visible to the distance.

I'm not seeing the visual superiority of OpenGL as compared to the latest incarnations of D3D either.

-Surf

[Merlin]

How did I attack the Mac platform? I have a Mac and a PC both outfitted to fly.

My comment was on the business basics of where Aces High is today, not which graphics engine is best.

Regardless of what the Mac player base would like to see, HiTech is obviously comfortable coding to D3D thus he can crank out a decent beta and production version quicker. The sooner arenas can open to generate revenues the sooner these guys have the bucks to spend on futures. I know this is obvious and I'm not trying to talk down to anyone but these threads about "they should do this" or "they should do that" without any consideration of what they CAN do today are meaningless.

I fly with a few mac pilots and would miss them a ton in AH but unfortunatly, in the short run, they won't be there.

<S> Merlin

[funked]

Just charge the Mac guys more.

[Rolo]

(Rolo's evil twin looks about warily and begins to stir the pot)

Psst!  Any of you guys read this article about Macs v. PCs as game machines on Gamespot?

 http://www.gamespot.com/features/macvspc/index.html

Regardless of the merits of one platform over the other (and even the economics of cross-platform development), the real issue in my mind is that cross-platform in multiplayer games requires that you code for the lowest common denominator.  Cool features available on one platform that aren't available on the other must be left out of the game because you must maintain a level playing field.  

Rolo

[front]

OpenGL or equiv?!

Right now some of us would be happy for just ONE(!!) arena flightsim for the mac that works (31 July 99).
cheers

front

[Horn]

Well, I figured since you HTC guys are rolling in the hot sauce since the end of the Beta and the advent of paying to play, I figured this is as good a time as any to re-bring this up  

dh
(oftheyeahI'mapainintheasstribe)

[indian]

with all the money Gates put into Apple isnt there a windows emulator that can run this program.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  Cherokee Indian
My Homepage
Where you can find the Key Commands in  files for Word6 Wordpad and text mode.

indians Homepage

Aces High Word6 and Wordpad Doc's available on my web site.

[Horn]

 

with all the money Gates put into Apple isnt there a windows emulator that can run this program.
 ------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon

Sure, runs it great. Input devices don't work, tho.

(and Gates had nothing to do w/ it, btw)

dh

[-sudz-]

Ok, here's the technical low-down from someone who used to work with Caligula & Hoss and also HT (and who is also currently programming his own game) :

First - OpenGL vs D3D.  OpenGL IS easier to develop with than D3D.  Many's the time that I've coded something with D3D, shook my head, and said "what the f*ck were they thinking".  The problem with OpenGL is that there isn't a _complete_ set of functionality of graphic operations supported by the vid cards for OpenGL.  Something cool that's available in D3D just isn't supported on the card for OpenGL. That takes away from the eye candy.  Also, 2D operations in OpenGL are a pain in the ass. This comment comes from Random (former ICI, now MotorSims).  MS has said that they're going to produce a product that will allow OpenGL's full functionality (Fire-something) but I suspect it will be a layer of OpenGL on top of D3D, which would slow the game down.

Second - PCs vs Macs:  To start, I like the Mac, but graphics of OpenGL vs D3D aren't the only issues in implementing a game.  There are also different methods to do dialogs, communication, game installation, input device polling and configuration, system key conflicts, and system querying (ie does this system even have a joystick). Even going OpenGL "from the start" wouldn't solve these divergences.

Third - programmers: Programmers are in high demand in the industry and Mac programmers even more so.  Hense, more expensive. An average salary for an experienced programmer these days runs from 55K to 80K (non-consultant).  True, you can find Mac programmers like Hoss that will work for less than he could get because he loves the game field, but that makes programming for the Mac even less feasible if you try finding another coder like him.

These aren't all the issues involved but it touches on some of the main points. I've yakked with HT on his approaches to platform independence and can at least assure you the man has got it together on this issue. Big time.  He has _no_ hatred for the Mac platform and has as many complaints about D3D that I do.

Take Pyro's post for exactly what it is - a _current_ position statement not a policy carved on some stone tablet.

Hope this helps . . .

-sudz-

[Horn]

Very interesting, Sudz...  

I was just commenting that now that HTC has finished buying all the planes and boats, furs for the wives, etc., from revenue this game has generated, I figured they might get busy on the *important* stuff  

dh

[Luckyone]

Dangit Steve!

[This message has been edited by Luckyone (edited 02-06-2000).]