You get what you put in...

[hblair]

How many of you log into the game each evening thinking somebody owes you something? You get shot down, don't understand why, and *demand* an explanation?

There are too many characters like that around here now, in my opinion. The good guys seem to let themselves get drowned out these days in the main arena. We shouldn't let bad-mannered A-holes own the text buffer in the arena. I remember a day when people were embarrassed to act like a tard in the arena, because if they did, they were going to catch hell from the rest of us.     Some of them didn't care, and just acted like idiots anyway. But it seemed to keep the peace most of the time.

I read a thread today over on AGW about the attitudes of WB's players vs. the attitudes of AH players. The WB's guys were downing the AH guys for being immature spazzes. I thought to myself the usual, "They're full of sh*t!", til I read a response by drex that said pretty much, "yeah, the AH community has a long way to go, but give it time". After thinking a minute, I have to agree with this, even though I haven't flown WB's in over a year, I don't remember the amount of immaturity that I sometimes see in the buffer over here (keyword being sometimes).

There's not a whole lot HT, pyro, & company can do to curb this, I don't think. I think it's pretty much up to me and you. There's some great guys over here. More great guys than boneheads, but if the good guys just squelch channel 1, it's gonna be left to the boneheads. I say we try to curb it ourselves. If a guy gets on channel 1 spewing BS after getting killed, and 5 or so of us old vets politely explained to him that it's his own fault, and to act like a big boy, he'd probably can it (maybe not). Am I making sense here?

Ok, back to the original subject, "How many of you log into the game each evening thinking somebody owes you something?"

How many of you guys who spend so much time downing everything have actually done anything for this game? For example:

1. AKdejavu's K/D stats after each TOD.

2. Ripsnorts squad pages, and training stuff. Ripsnorts TOD as a trainer was up almost a year ago, but he's still at it. Why? Guess he enjoys helping people.

3. Guys who are slaving away making maps. I know that my squaddie jihad has untold hours in the scenario map he's working on, wanting to get it just right.

4. All the CM staff. I became one a month or two ago, and let me tell you. These guys don't get a free ride. The work that these fellas have done on Hostile Shores is really impressive.

5. Lephturn. This guy oughta be on the htc payroll.  

6. Exile. Check out his new simladder.com site. Great work there.

And there's many more that I can't think of right now.


Geez, it's late, I guess the point of all this rambling is- This community is only going to get as bad as you and I let it. If you don't want to hear the undesirables blabber, don't be too embarrassed/ashamed to correct them.



[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 04-24-2001).]

[Mathman]

I completely agree with hblair.  I used to look forward each day to reading the bbs during my free period at work, hearing stories of noble deeds and wonderful combats that took place during the night before.  The FRIENDLY banter between the members of the three countries.  The discussions concerning the various plusses and minuses of each plane in the set.

Lately, however, instead of finding great stories and the like, I have only found constant whining, name-calling, and out-right despicable behavior.  It has gotten to the point where almost every post is a whine about this plane or that tactic/strategy/whatever.  In the year or so that I have been visiting the boards, I had probably seen 2 or 3 threads locked.  In the last two weeks, there have been at least that many, and almost certainly more.

What really makes this sad is that this is not isolated to the bbs.  When I log in after a long day at work to relieve stress by shooting my "despised enemies" down and being killed by them, all I see is people whining.  This is NOT limited to Channel 1, but also on the country channel.

Lately, I have found myself doing other things than playing AH.  Why?  Not because of the C Hogs or Nikis.  I have grown tired of the crap that goes on here and in the MA.  People whine about this guy killing chutes, or that guy racking up 20 kills in a Niki.

It has gotten to the point where I have actually started to question whether the game is worth the $30 that I spend on it.  I love playing this game.  It has everything that I like (namely bullets, bombs, and WW2 airplanes) coupled with a chance to interact with people who share similar interests.  However, these things are seeming less important to me as they "seem" to become less important to the community at large.

To me, at least, the only good thing that all this negativity has spawned is that now I recognize when someone does something good (i.e. helping a newbie out or discussing what their opponent's mistakes were and how to correct them).  To all those out there who have helped the newbies out, I give you a big <S>.

To those that scorn newbies and treat them like dirt, do yourself and the newbie a favor.  Think back to when you first started playing this game.  Odds are that you didn't just jump in and get to the level you are at now.  I would be willing to bet that there was someone there who helped you out, be it a squaddie from another game or someone you had just met when you logged on the first time.  You may be surprised, if you can get past the ego, that you were just like the people asking "ANYONE NEED A GUNNER!?!?!?" and "HOW DO I TAKEOFF."  I know I was.

AH is a great game.  It has its problems, it has its strengths.  I think most of us can agree that its strengths outweigh the weaknesses, otherwise we wouldn't be here.  We all want it to get even better.  Do the game and the community a favor, think before you "speak" on channel 1.  Think about whether or not the vitriol you are planning on posting is worth it.

Anyways, I have rambled enough and it probably makes no sense, but its late and I gotta go to work in the morning.

-math

[Fariz]

Interesting, am I the only one around who think that attitude on ch1 is a) much better, than it was 6 months ago b) friendly and forgiving.

Yes, I see sometimes offences and was offended myself several times, but it is normally free-2-weeks-players. In the contrast, I had TONS of good chats, <S> and so on from people I do respect in AH.

Though I do not love banning and shutting up people, seems, that HTC policy works here, and tendency is clearly good.

Fariz

[RoadfRash]

Well I dont ever remember loggin on thinking anyone owes me anything, or for that matter having that attitude in the real world, however I do admit to running my mouth sometimes due to getting shot down but then remembering what an old friend told me ( Hajo ) that it was most likely my own fault for getting myself into a bad position I then regroup and try again, competition can get anyone of us bent outta shape but we shouldnt rationalize that as an excuse to become a total AzWhole, but it seems you can almost tell age groups in here by how they respond and the way they go off on people.

Will this be solved by the silent majority calling the offender down? I'm not sure, seems there are so many offenders the buffer would be over run with this and radio ch 1 turns into a flame war.

How do you teach the difference of freedom as opposed to license thru a monitor? Some think they can say what ever they want ( license ) others are able to function within the rules ( freedom ), seems real difficult to moderate attitudes in an environment like this and there will be those that take advantage of this while in a real world condition they may not behave this way at all.

Maybe HTC can give the majority a way to block the offending individual rather than the majority squelching ch 1! The majority rules if some percentage exercise an input on a certain call sign then that call sign looses radio privalige (sp?) for some amount of time.

[Animal]

I agree 100% hblair.  
A good example was, you were present sunday night, yeah, that guy I shot down.
It was the LONGEST whine in the history of Aces High. Even long after you were gone, this guy was still giving excuses on why I shot him down, and calling me "gay", etc. After everyone was flaming him on the buffer, he took the 'jedi' attitude, saying names of the guys he shot down recently (list wich included Cit, NathBDP, and many others) and how I should improve my ACM, and how it was because of the warps that I won the fight.

Mind you, this was more than an hour after the fight took place.

Why do we need explanations when we lose? and worse yet, why do so many people here always need an excuse for losing a fight? where is the sportsmanship.

The squad I fly, a bunch of bushwackers and backstabbers, I see more sportsmanship in these jerks than I see in many people in the MA. This is sad, people. I dont know what is the problem with this community.

I believe its the fact that it is a new sim, and many of the players are new online sim players. Most people in WB have been playing it for many years, they know each other and the comunity has had time to mature. Lets just hope we can mature too, soon.

------------------
Nethawk: Does your squad openly shoot down chutes?
Fatty: At times, but only if they want to.
Nethawk: Theyre scum
Fatty: cc they are scum

Fatty: as am I

Fat DRUNK Bastards

[flakbait]

Hblair, I know what you mean bud. I really do. I remember the old BETA days of guys getting jumped for acting like they owned the place. The few times I was in the arenas during the past months some guys were still good. StSanta, Rip, MaxQ, Raub, and a couple others. StEx I remember as a trator, I remember parking a tank next to ol CaveJ and the two of us shelling a base. I can almost see his face when I pulled up in an M16 to give him cover once. Heheh that was classic.

I think I'll blow my own horn here, if you guys don't mind. I remember starting my web site after playing Warbirds for only a few months. It wasn't exactly a huge hit, but there was some traffic. Like one hit a month, usually from me checking for broken links. Once I got some experience with code I cranked out the site it is today. Still helping new guys, and still posting interesting info for anyone to use. Now I'm revamping it yet again, mostly for looks. I have to admit my sound pack was a much bigger success than I ever thought it would be. 800 downloads in the first week and a half alone. Now it's sitting at 956. As long as I can I'll keep my site humming, and I'll add new things when the mood strikes or when I see I'm lacking something.

Kinda funny that between me, Rip, Lephturn, and Jekyll rests most of the Aces High help section. Those three are in the game, I'm running a site and raiding H2H during Blue Moons. Probably explains why I get left out of lists like yours Hblair!   Seriously now, I have to admit I'm getting sick of seeing the same crap day in and day out. Kiddies screaming about this or that, H2H girls acting like 15 year-olds with a sugar rush. It gets tiring that for sure, but I'm not about to stop just because a few people have a too much Ego being driven by too little IQ.

I enjoy AH, I get sweaty palms every time I engage someone with skill, and my heart pounds in every fight. I had hoped to never use the phrase "same sh^t different day" here, but now is one of those times. So until things are cleared up I'll continue to lurk in H2H on Blue Moons. And I'll keep helping anyone that wants it, provided they're civil and polite. As long as a few good guys stick around and continue to help Tin Horns, enjoy the game, and keep their tempers "Offline" I'll be among them.

I don't want anything from anyone, except a good fight and a smart salute at the end. If I'm helping someone, all I want is their attention. No one owes me anything, except for the odd beer here or there for helping out. You may repay someone with cash, but I do it with a good story over a cold one. Hblair it's nice to see there's still a few guys around that haven't been lost in the maze. Good luck to you bud.


-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[StSanta]

HBblair, you know damned well that without me, LW wouldn't have pink leather g-strings and other (what the allies call "kinky") gear.

I've done my share. Now, PAY ME BACK  .

just come sit in my lap.

------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Kweassa]

 
 ..

 Nobody's a bonehead on purpose.
 
 These on-line game's have a age variation

 from like embryo to nicely ripe people and

 just how much mature people react entirely

 depends on how they are taught with in the

 community.

 I'm a newbie at MA, and  I've  seen  those

 flaming insults go by..and though  I don't

 doubt seeing these  stuff  for  ages would

 tire old-timers, to me it's  not something

 I can't understand (or maybe even forgive).

 If somebody doesn't  understand  something,

 and feels they've been  shot  down  due to

 some ill conspiracy, it won't be too   bad

 for oldbies to take time and explain things

 nicely.

 Everybody was a newbie sometime  in  their

 AH  career,  and  I'll bet a lot of people

 do have some memories of how they 'touched'

 the pandora's box accidentally, not knowing

 some  of  those  subjects were a taboo or a

 no-no in this community...  

 Not because they are bone-heads, but because

 they simply didn't know, and no one  simply

 took enough time to teach and explain before

 waving their formiddable counter-insults and

 verbal flaming at 'em.

 
 I admit a lot of newbies are confident about

 their  skills, to the point of  ill-mannered

 arrogance.  And  being killed  simply hurts

 their pride. But those childish and immature

 feelings generally subside after experience

 and time. And as they learn to  flap  their

 fluffy wings, and begin to understand  what

 air-combat is, they learn about 'respect'.

 And I believe even the most bone-headed  of

 newbies would eventually learn humbleness..

 
 But of course, they could learn it the easy

 and quick way, with  help of  ever-forgiving

 oldbies ^_^; ..

 Or they could learn it the long and hard way

 . Get a few slaps and smacks across the cowl

 at channel 1, get barbequed  by  impressive

 flames and decide to just shut-up and learn.
 
 
 ..

 Or they may not learn at all.

 And just leave with the 'hostile' impression
 
 of the 'nasty AH community'.


 Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending

 bone-headedness, I'm just suggesting that

 the oldbies equally need to relax and take

 forgiving stances, take time to explain and

 give out cautions, just as much as newbies

 need to learn humbleness.


 So, I suggest

 when a typical newbie starts to whine

 about why he lost... just give out a smile

 and chill him out patiently. After all,

 they're only newbies. What'dya expect of

 them? Aristocratic "Luftwaffe Pilot"

 behaviors? (* winks *)

[Kieran]

You know I agree with you 100%.

[Ripsnort]

With all due respect Hblair, what I  contribute is pale compared to others in this community, but I digress and thank you.

You, sir, are a pinnicle of this community.  Its folks like you that keep the faith, keep alot of us 'coming back', even with global attitude changes within the community.

This sim is growing every day.  There is no set rules followed, no boundaries short of being banned for extremely profane/racist remarks, and we're a mixed lot of different life styles, nationalities, political and religious beliefs, and pilot egos.  When that 'pot' get fuller, some spill out.

While I agree with your post, I also like to influence others by leading by example.  As a father yourself, you can relate.  Its frustrating when you see 100 more people online and the quality of conversations decline, and whines increase.  However, with you leading by example, you might affect 3 of those 100.  Well, 3 can then lead another 6 by example, those 6 another 12, etc. etc.

I guess my summary would be this: Be who you want to be, let others be who they want to be...live and let live.  When I see those who act immature, I consider them handi-capped, something that didn't happen in their life while in their younger years as part of a nurturing process.  There is nothing you or I or Leph, or Flak or anyone of the guys that contribute to this community can do to change an individuals behavior, that was a nurturing process that took place years before they logged on.

So we do what we do best, and try to set an example by leadership.  If you help out one individual in the game, you've already jumped out ahead of everyone else in MY respect book.

Too corny? maybe.

<S>

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-24-2001).]

[MrSiD]

Old Chinese proverb says: Fight with bullets, not words

[darling]

Wait a minute, people can post stories here? I've never seen one :-(

In the few months I've been playing AH (5 or 6 now I think), I've seen more flames on this BBS than on most other BBS's I read. Even the Quake BBS's, though often lively, were never this bad.

Personally I don't squelch ch1 often, but I do keep a list of people I squelch during the time it takes to download the arena status, player lists etc. It's about 10 people that have either tried to argue with me, or whined on and on. It's just part of what I do when I get online. "Normal Icon Mode, check", "Video Info Off, check", "Tracers Off, check", "RW set to base station, check", "squelch list completed, check". This is a sad thing to have to do, but something I do to increase my enjoyment.

On the side of whining, I don't deny doing my part of it. This usually happens in the 2 seconds after being blasted. I'm a 60 words per minute typist, so I often type before I think :-). I tend to apologize afterwards though, and "boy is my face red". But then again, I often ask the guy whodunit, how he did it, not out of spite, but because I really want to know. I want to learn the tricks, to be able to avoid them and to be able to pull them myself :-) This is often interpreted as whining unfortunately. If people don't want to answer, that's their prerogative. It was their trick, after all. I thoroughly enjoy banter after a tough fight though. It's a good way to release tension, and you often learn something. People jsut have to try to keep the irritation level down.

"Tolerance, peace, prosperity, in that order"
Darling

[hblair]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Mathman, don't be quitting anytime soon. You're too much fun to have around.  

Animal, I tried to make jokes, thinking maybe that guy would chill. He just couldn't get over it could he?  

Flakbait, those were guys I could think of at 2am off the top of my sleepy head. You're contributions are just as important as anybodys.

Kwessa, nice reply.

Thanks kieren.

Rip, thanks. Yep, Leading by example is the way to go, and I could do better at that myself.

[Mighty1]

hblair when AH first started pay to play I would help out all the newbies I could because I wanted them to have fun but after a year of helping others I finally realized that I was WAAAAAY better than anyone else so why should I help THEM?

I mean sure I could do maps better than anyone here but why should I? You people would whine about how all the detail was confusing.

I could do Stats for people and have the most detailed reports ever but you guys suck so why should I have to prove it to you paper?

I could be the best CM ever but you guys would whine because I made it to hard fo you.(since you guys suck)

Hell I could even write a better game than this but I don't want to put HTC/WB/AW out of business. (They all seem like nice guys but they suck at flying)

 
OK OK kidding aside I still help people when I can because it HELPS everyone when new people learn to fly.

I still call 6 when possible and don't complain to much when I get killed because the 6 guys on my tail chasing the con that got me didn't say anything.

I still try to control my urge to cuss and whine when I get killed. I even try to "calm" other people who are on the verge of going over the edge.

The point to this long ramble is this:

This is a very good Flight Sim/Game and the community is very strong and it is up to US not HTC to keep it going strong. They can make improvments in the game to make the customers happy but WE have to do what we can to make the community happy.

There are several people who fly that do far more that teach others they spend hours and hours of their time doing work for us so we can enjoy our time in AH more.

<S> to them and their work.

By the way I have heard people say what I was joking about above and really mean it.

[sling322]

<S> Hblair!!  I agree....even if you are an ASSassin.