Author Topic: WW2OL Revisited (Read 6303 times)

Dinger · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2002, 11:18:26 PM »

Ahhh, "despawn". You know, I swear I coined that term; of course, such things are lost in the mists of the past, so I'll pretend I didn't.

"despawn" was for me one of my major objections to WW2OL. Instead of smoking hulks, or crew bailing out, or anything like that, they just disappear.
Yeah, I have fond memories of those few shining moments where I snuck into an enemy assembly area with an SMG, and get a bunch of kills; or the time I single-handedly capped a base, killing eight infantry, two halftrack drivers, a couple 88 crews and two pak gunners.
But I also recall hours of sitting around. Despawning tanks. Spawn campers. Bedfords that can't make the grade. Aircraft you can't bail out of, and that can land and shut down anywhere.
I remember when Luger sniping wasn't an issue, because the 9mm parabellum round would fire forwads, then slingshot backwards under low-FP sconditions. I remember posting detailed test reports with 100% repeatable results, showing how you could hit the back of a target with this bug. I remember being asked to leave.

Yeah, hard, maybe one of these days they'll have a product worth coming back to. I won't deny it has flashes of brilliance; but the BS you have to put up with to enjoy that just isn't worth it. It's a pity -- it's a good idea, but the implementation seems the work of a bunch of well meaning amateurs.

hardcase · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2002, 12:11:26 AM »

It prolly never will have burning hulks. Bandwidth problems. How many is too many hulks, how do you disappear them when someone is using them for cover. This was hashed over a lot. They still want to do it, but each ones eats bandwidth and you must remove the clutter sometime.

As for luger sniping. I have rarely used one since I fly more than grunt. I have not seen that on the forums or in beta. I will ask around. I suspect what ww2ol doesnt model is hand motion when firing. Like firing with a support. Absolutly steady aim can make a pistol have a greater reach. I would like to see taking to long to fire will make the sighting waver for all hand helds.

Yep, it does take a while to tweak and get stuff right. The time to do is shortening with each release. I would like to see ppl get a full month at it. It really does have a learning curve and 2 weeks may not be long enought for those freebies.

I am probably lucky. I still run win98se and my machines stay very stable. I have avoided most of the frustrations, and I know they would take away from my gameplay if they were happening to me. Quite a few of us monitor the community help forum and we seem to get must ppl up and running. Gameplay issue, not a thing I can help.

A scenario server was run last week. Simple rules for the startup. One thing, Infantry was also attrited. Anhee, was attacked ruthlessly by the Germans for 3 hours and finally ran out of even grunts. Had like 5 Laffy Trucks left. Gameplay is always in flux and CRS does listen.

I'll always invite anyone to the freebies:-)

hardcase

gatt · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2002, 12:57:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hardcase
My 2100xp, 1 gig 333mhz, geforce 4 4600 gets around 40fps with all the bells and whistles on in majior battles. There is something wrong in your setup (snip)
Hardcase

Looks like there is something wrong in *WW2OL*. You should get much more fps than that. But probably its game engine fault. Couldnt resist

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #18 on:** September 23, 2002, 01:14:01 AM »

downplay... excuse... defer... anecdote.

Got it!

koala · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2002, 01:16:28 AM »

Quote

The engine isnt out of date. The problem is the number of polygons that must be rendered. The graphics will improve as the machines get better.

Hardcase, have you done any graphics programming? Because you apparently don't have a clue. Any half-way decent engine today will implement appropriate Level of Detail so that you can get fast FPS with relatively complex scenerery. And there's nothing about WW2OL's scenery that makes it uniquely difficult.

Fishu · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2002, 02:52:48 AM »

Vulcan,

Often people over estimates the distance as a troop

Koala,

Yes, nice details and fast FPS - at a sandbox size map and OpenGL, right?

straffo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2002, 04:06:31 AM »

This is a superb game were a Jerry can kill your B1 with his luger ...

what about this pak who killed my B1 in a front shot at 800 metres ?

Were are the MS406/D520 ?

not enought data said playskool idiot ...

but as they are unable to make a proper FM for a plane why do they bother about accurate data ?

This software is a slow piece of junk coded by idiots.

Fishu · « **Reply #22 on:** September 23, 2002, 05:00:56 AM »

Straffo,

Luger killing B1? at least drop the lies ok?
Often B1's also gets flanked, how do you know it was Pak and not some other gun on your flank?
I wonder how many B1 players I've caused to think that the tank in front of them killed them, when in fact the lethal shot came from the side - which they never ever saw or cared about.

Where is Brewster from AH? :>

Define "proper FM", what makes you think AH has proper flight model? what makes you think anything has proper flight model? did you perhaps fly the WWII planes?

I could just as well find many mistakes from AH, which I assume you think has very good flight model and other things.

Charge · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2002, 05:04:43 AM »

Ok, maybe the SW sucks but what is great about this game is the co-operation of air and ground forces. In my opinion you should be in a squad to get the most of the game. The game rules have been altered every now and then to balance the game and to add features which reward team play more.

I think it's not possible to run a game with, say, OFP ground graphics and viewing distances and ground elevetions of WW2OL with present day computers...

Yesterday I was in a Pz38 defending our forward base carefully driving forward among the bushes and trees. Suddenly I heard a tank cannon firing next to me. I stopped the tank and turned the turret to see a possible enemy tank. Behind the bushes was a British Matilda 2, the monster tank which could rip my puny Pz38 to pieces with one shot! The Matty had not seen me so I carefully closed in behind the bushes so that I could see its turret. I shot 3 rounds to the base of its cannon causing the cannon to break down. Then a few shots to forward drive gears to immobilize it. The Matty continued shooting our GI's with its turret MG so I had to finish it off somehow. The only place my cannon could penetrate its thick armor was in 90 degrees angle to its fuel tank armor. So I drove carefully to Mattys flank hoping there wouldn't be an A13 somewhere nearby ready to ruin my day with one carefully placed shot in my turret. Nobody shoots me except the Matty who now see me and realizes it cannot run. I stop my tank at Matty's side and land a few AP grenades just below the fuel tank armor causing a flame roaring from Matty's turret. My first Matty kill in a Pz38 and I'm already a Colonel of the ground forces. I was lucky!

The FM in WW2OL is not on the same level with the AH but in my opinion sufficient to give challenges and to support the gameplay as a whole. Anyway, I still play AH because of the better FM and and the different (air-biased) emphasis of the game.

-Charge+

(WW2OL axis chrg)

straffo · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2002, 05:49:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Straffo,

Luger killing B1? at least drop the lies ok?

In fact last time I switched to the dark side (I try to play 50/50) a friend of mine showed me how to kill the B1 driver with a handgun ... it work ...

Quote

Often B1's also gets flanked, how do you know it was Pak and not some other gun on your flank?
I wonder how many B1 players I've caused to think that the tank in front of them killed them, when in fact the lethal shot came from the side - which they never ever saw or cared about.

I hate being alone in a B1 last time I got killed this way I was with R35 and friendly inf around me ...
I don't pretend the Pak was at 800 meter as I've not seen it (I'm pretty bad at spoting things

) but it was what was reported by my friend who killed him ...
And I won't let a char disabled on top of a hill with a suerb sky background

Quote

Where is Brewster from AH? :>

Dunno ... I hope to see all plane in AH ...
But imagine a game based in the continuation war without one of the major weapon involved (no Brewster for you ... one year)
It make no sence ... like the absence of the 520/406

Quote

Define "proper FM", what makes you think AH has proper flight model? what makes you think anything has proper flight model? did you perhaps fly the WWII planes?

Well ...
I just don't feel right ...
why it is so different than AH IL2 or WB ?

Quote

I could just as well find many mistakes from AH, which I assume you think has very good flight model and other things.

nope I'm not a FM specialist I admit there is probably error in any FM but as I said previously why can I make thing in WWIIol which are impossible in other sims ?

and why do they model a so funky 25 mm sight ? I've the documentation of the 25 used by my grand father in 1940 ...

Vulcan · « **Reply #25 on:** September 23, 2002, 06:55:57 AM »

Fishu 'estimating' distances have little to do with 'luger sniping'.

FM? Please, do not try and justify the WW2OL FM. It is a simplified FM, an easy mode FM. Which is what WW2OL needs. An AH style FM would scare the crap out of the average punter.

AH is by no means perfect, but only someone grasping at straws would try to compare the WW2OL FM to AH. Compare it to CFS1 or something.

And I'd hardly call the maps on AH or OFP 'sandbox' in size.

No matter how much you wave the flag fishu, you're pissing into the wind. I laid my money out (btw Hardcase I put you down as the friend reference so you should get some free gametime - seeing as you do so much WW2OL promoting here

. I found the game to be lacking relatively quickly.

In the WW2OL forums, I saw estimates talked about of a 10000-15000 active player base, and a general consensus that WW2OL had failed to hold the player base despite good initial retail sales.

I posted about my PAID FOR experience here just to let the guys here know what the latest was. Most AH players were keen for WW2OL to succeed, only to be disappointed.

It suprises me that you eagerly jump into any WW2OL discussion on the AH BBS. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands, spare time not playing WW2OL

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Straffo,

Luger killing B1? at least drop the lies ok?
Often B1's also gets flanked, how do you know it was Pak and not some other gun on your flank?
I wonder how many B1 players I've caused to think that the tank in front of them killed them, when in fact the lethal shot came from the side - which they never ever saw or cared about.

Where is Brewster from AH? :>

Define "proper FM", what makes you think AH has proper flight model? what makes you think anything has proper flight model? did you perhaps fly the WWII planes?

I could just as well find many mistakes from AH, which I assume you think has very good flight model and other things.

Vulcan · « **Reply #26 on:** September 23, 2002, 06:59:07 AM »

Totally agree on the FM Charge.

However, the viewing distances in OFP are similar to WW2OL. The ground elevations in OFP are far more complex than WW2OL. The scenery in OFP is far more dense, and the models far more complex. The map is reasonably large in OFP, yet it doesn't eat memory or requiring slow paging from disk like WW2OL.

Bottom line is, there graphics engine is porked. Hell, 1 year on and the sky rendering still shows errors.

Quote

Originally posted by Charge
Ok, maybe the SW sucks but what is great about this game is the co-operation of air and ground forces. In my opinion you should be in a squad to get the most of the game. The game rules have been altered every now and then to balance the game and to add features which reward team play more.

I think it's not possible to run a game with, say, OFP ground graphics and viewing distances and ground elevetions of WW2OL with present day computers...
The FM in WW2OL is not on the same level with the AH but in my opinion sufficient to give challenges and to support the gameplay as a whole. Anyway, I still play AH because of the better FM and and the different (air-biased) emphasis of the game.

-Charge+

(WW2OL axis chrg)

Wotan · « **Reply #27 on:** September 23, 2002, 07:22:09 AM »

I know I sniped 2 guys with a pistol. I know I shot another guy in the same area and distance with my rifle and he sprinted behind a building. I rtb'd got 2 kills and I damage. I saw the 2 I fired at with my ppistol fall and die. This happened more the once. When asked guys in the game everyone said "use ur pistol".

I was high the a church and in the the folks I killed we dropped by the woods south of the ab. I shot completely across the ab, a road, a building and some flat ground on either side of the ab.

I dont need to lie and my squadmate was right there on rw. He has ran right up behind a guy and shot him several times with his rifle to have the guy turn around kill him, I have had the same thing happen. So the next time we did this we used the pistol and what do you know 1 shot 1 kill.

I never killed a tank with a pistol but I have a picture of a guy climbing under my stug and somehow all my crew dieing. All I heard was small arms fire. I was parked and looking around and no nme tanks were around. When I exited I saw a french rifleman laying on the ground with his feet sticking out from underneath me and heard him firing his rifle.

I care nothing about the airwar in wwwiiol but come on, 110 is the plane of choice for the lw in the battle of france? pistols are the weapon of choice by inf? grenades with their screwed up hit cone explode on impact and kill everyone in a tank? guys can climb underneath a tank and some how shoot the crew?

But even all that would be tolerable if the overall gameplay was fun. Its boring 90% of the time.

The p11 was very fun though. I got a ton of kills with it. AP upclose would kill an r35 and the he shreds inf. I sat up numerous times on the hill ne above sedan and was able to rain he down into the inf spawn in the west ab. I was able to kil a few boats that spawned. When nme tanks spotted me I could move back out of their line a sight and wait a few before repositioning.

I was almost a major in the army and a leutenant in the lw.

I gave kept a paid account their from the time it went pay to play and canceled it in 1.50. Came back for the welcome back sucker free week and finally re sub 3 weeks ago. I have less then maybe 35 hours in all that time. I am not just a "wwiiol hater" if it was fun I would tell ya. With its current model I dont see how they can move on to other theaters, I was really looking forward to an East front theater but with nothing but capture the flag/town it just wont be any fun. To call what wiiol has modelled "Blitzkreig" is a stretch.

Dont believe me? try it out. 10 bucks for a month. err 12 now. If it was good I'd pay $30 a month but I wouldnt play what they have now for free.

straffo · « **Reply #28 on:** September 23, 2002, 07:42:57 AM »

I agree with you Wotan :
There is potential in WWIIol ...but not the implementation

one of the incovenient of WWIIol compared to AH is it's neither an open Arena like the Ma but nor a scenario ...

It just combine the worst : restriction like in scenario and gamer attitude like in MA

hardcase · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2002, 08:40:12 AM »

Lot of statements as facts of stuff that is only speculation. I remember when warbirds was the new kid on the block and everyone tore it to pieces. AH was the same way. WW2OL is no different.

"It is not fun"..I find it fun.

We are both correct to our opinions.

hardcase