Strat suggestion....whaddaya think?

[Mighty1]

The big problem with that is if let's say Bish only has 20 people online and Rooks have 40 and Knights have 30 how are the Bish gonna be able to defend themself? The Rooks could send 20 AC to 1 base and there is nothing the Bish can do.

To me this idea goes away from the individual pilots to more of a swarm. i.e. the side who has the biggest swarm wins.

I think because of the un-balance of the sides if you did away with respawning at a base you would make base captures to easy and would do away with having to kill a base before capturing it.

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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"

[Swoop]

Close the base?  Please re-read my original statement.

"and about 10 more Bish immediately spawn up at this base (OR NEARBY)."

BARCAP?  yeah ok, go on then.  Have fun.  


And Ripsnort, yeah we're all impressed by your ability to plan and lead raids.  But you're missing something, see, using a system like I've suggested enemy forces could be 'out flanked' by simply getting organized.  Which should give you even more of an advantage, given your preference for missions.

And there's more.....what about that pesky M16 that re-spawns and blows your wing off before you've even turned around? *
(yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, close the base)

It just brings something new to think about......where is the enemy right now?

Did the US forces in the pacific have flyable fighters from EVERY base ALL the time?

Swoop


* Copyright Kbman.  ;-)  

[AKDejaVu]

I really think we should pick and chose what realistic qualities we want in this sim.  Sure.. respawning isn't realist.  What about knowing that as long as you are turning, ack is most likely going to miss?  What about knowing exactly how many ack/hangars/etc are located at each field and be able to hit each with incredible precision.  How about being able to know if any defenders are airborne near a base BEFORE you even launch?

There are very viable ways to capture bases.  I see it happen all to often to believe this isn't possible.  Learn to do it right.

AKDejaVu

ps.  Why do I get the feeling that the same people bringing up these issues are the same guys spending 3 hours trying to take A16 or A27?

[Downtown]

The Wrecking Crew and some of our associates have closed and captured several bases in record time.  We have even done it to defended bases.

Now the trick is to ensure that everyone in your country doesn't organize and work together.  A vast conglomerate of pilots flying for themselves is the key to success in this aspect.  I think that the 357th Pony Express and 13th TAS should disband, they are obviously holding the Rooks and Bishops back.

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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

[Tac]

Ripsnort, when I was on my 2 week trial AND when I subscribed (well, the 2 months I was in any way) I was a Knight. Zig's missions rewl because they ARE missions and people flock to them.

But that is not the point. All I'm saying is that if fields had some limitation when they are under attack, it would make the game much more interesting and inmersive (sp?), not a race to get up ackstars and god knows how many hundreds of fighters launching over and over from the same airfield, which promotes the always hated ackstarring and HO dweebish defense.

[wolf37]

hi all:

well the biggest problem I can see with this idea, is simply put, the numbers. right now the Bishops have the numbers, next tour will be the Rooks or the Knights, time will tell.
now if the Bishops decide to attack 5 fields at once, and the defenders have to come from god knows where, then the Bishops will take all 5 fields. but next tour either Rooks or Knights will be doing it. last night the Bishops where attacking 16 from either 20 or 26. they had lots of pilots and still could not take the base, well atleast not well I was on, maybe when I left they might have taken it. but the point is, they did not close the base, so we Knights where able to defend it. Now at one poiont, the Knight put together a mission to take 26, the Bishops suddenlly had 20 to 30 pilots there, I saw at one point, 8 or 9 m-16 on or by the field, a lot of these pilots had been flying out of 20. the Bishops held 26, the Knights held 16, the Rooks had 8 pilots online in total and where doing what ever they do. the point is, close the field and you can take it, as far as having to fly from god knows where, not a good idea. if that was the case, we would all be looking for the fields that have nobody at and attack them. if I wanted to attack fields with no defenders, I could play off line for free. you want to take a field, then close it and get your goon in fast. the Knights know this and that is why we can do it.



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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[carl]

No problem with respawning at the base ONCE or nearby bases as many times as you like...but being able to respwan 89 times at the same base is BOOOOORRIIINNGGGG  . Think this idea of SWOOPS is GREAT ! I mean geez .. we got pinpoint radar in the airplane , sector indicators to find tanks and stuff , huge dots for cons 9000 miles away .. and this respawning 89 times cr*p all the time. NO MORE QUAKE PLEASE ! How simple do you people that are opposed to this idea want it to be ?   you all need aim9 missiles also ?   I also feel that we need better AAA or air arty at all the bases , for one or two people to be able to capture a big base by themselves on the sneak is blah, or maybe make it so that more structures need to be killed off  .  like the barracks and and whatever , or maybe make it so the 50 cal aa comes up in 15 mins.

[This message has been edited by carl (edited 09-07-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

Wolf37,

Let me give you a brief rundown of what happened at 26.  I know you were there, but your story seems incredibly skewed.

 

Now at one poiont, the Knight put together a mission to take 26

This wasn't recognized at first.  The Bish had been trying to take 58 for some time, but there were people defending it.  After one sortie.. in my F4u-1D... I was nearly out of gas and was returning after patrol.  I saw that a massive red bar had appeared out of the base near 26, but thought it was heading back to 57.  I thought "if they want it that bad they can have it".  As I neared 26, I spotted 6.. no 8... no 10... no 12 knits at about 12k (I was about 13k at the time).  I called out to my squadmates that were also in the area for assistance.  There were a total of 4 AKs on at the time.

I aproached the column from the left at a high rate of closure.  Tons of 47s, 38s and 1Cs... I knew what was going on.  I dove in and began attacking the planes I deemed most likely to be heavy.  I got 1 P47 and pinged another pretty badly before running out of gas (barely had enough to catch the groupe).  I pointed the nose down and drug 4 of you low before dying.

The rest of the cons proceded to 26 as 4 AKs and a couple other Bish defended it.  It is at this time I began my verbal assault on all of the Bish that had been hitting a16 for the last 2 hours.

Nobody came to help.

Your group shut down 26 completely... taking out the VH and the FH in a timely manner.  I distinctly remember the last FH going down as I pointed my nose towards the p47 that got it.  Yes.. I had respawned.

The bish finally began to respond.  Some were coming up at nearby F17... others waited until the VH came back up (that's 15 mins for those that don't know).  The knit M3 didn't show up until after then.  I downed the C47 shortly thereafter.. and plenty were in place to get the second m3.

You guys had a 15 minute window to get troops in.. but blew it.  The whole flight went after ground targets and died as a result.  Bish didn't have numbers until after the first wave.  You blew it.. pure and simple.

AKDejaVu

[wolf37]

Dajavu, the Knights did not close the field at a26 last night. now I know you where braggen about how great you and the rest were for holding a26, but the we Knights failed to close the field, there for we did not take it. and if the Bishops had to all fly from god knows where, it would have been ours.
so if the game goes the way swoop would like to see it, then it works against everybody.
and I honestly dont see a lot of new pilots signing up to spend most of there time just flying to a base. maybe the Bishops seem to think that is ok, will give them more time to get lots of alt, but if I wanted to just fly around for hours, I would not be paying to do so online, I'd just play offline.

swoop, you asked what we think, well I for one think it is a bad idea and would be a bad move for HTC. the idea is to get more people signed up and playing, this is not going to do it.



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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[edward]

Great idea.




[This message has been edited by edward (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Swoop]

Everyones opinion is great but can I point one minor thing out:

IT AINT ABOUT BASE CAPTURE.

And Wolf, what you said happens anyway without having to think about spawn location.

Swoop

[AKDejaVu]

Sorry Wolf, you are wrong.

The knits took out the VH and both FH on the initial attack, but had nothing left in the area to follow up with.

I know this because I had to launch from A17 when I blew the landing in my F4 and lost a strut.

And.. I wasn't bragging about 26.  I was responding to a certain whiner who was complaining that too many people began to spawn at 26 (well after the initial attack) and that those that were spawning at 26 were gang-banging alt monkeys.  This after that pilot dove into a hornets nest for the 3rd straight time with no support.

Once again, you didn't see great numbers until the second wave of the attack.  That time you remembered to bring a couple of b26s and a b17... but it was too late.  The window of opportunity had been missed.

Once again.. you blew it.

This all comes down to a country trying to attack a relatively undefended country with a large attack force (12 planes or more) and being thwarted initially by a small number of planes (6) on your first wave of attacks.  You couldn't sneak a field.. boohoo.  After that it turned into Mayhem.  Maybe next time you won't trigger our attention with that big red bar launching from the base next door.... or you'll have to pay a tad bit more attention to those low fighters over the base instead of just diving in on ack without regard for the enemy situation.

I was the only plane there over 5k and I ran out of fuel.  Something was seriously wrong with your (or whomever's) plan.  Time to admit that.

AKDejaVu

[Ripsnort]

Carl:"I also feel that we need better AAA or air arty at all the bases , for one or two people to be able to capture a big base by themselves on the sneak is blah"

First issue, AA, been there done that.  AA was tougher, and everyone squeaked about it.

Second issue, only a handful of pilots (most who have been here since Beta) can do what Cave did, I challenge you to  do the same, then come back and tell me that the AA is too easy to kill.  With all due respect, sir,Put up or shut up.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-08-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

BTW.. on serious flaw with most attacks is how strung out the attackers get on the second wave.  This attack definately degenerated to that after the first wave.  Something to consider is just exactly when you should call it quits on an attack.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 09-08-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Bingo Deja, as a rule , VMF-323 only makes 2 sorties to the same airfield, if we don't get it in two, we move on, because its too tough once the enemy is notified of our intentions.