Author Topic: Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.  (Read 434 times)

Offline Lephturn

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« on: December 28, 2001, 08:23:00 PM »
I've finally completed the huge trim article I've been working on... seemingly forever.  I've had this mostly done for a couple months.  Holidays have finally given me the time to finish it.  Wooohoo!

Read this:  http://lephturn.webhop.net/trim.htm

If you are an ace, you know some of this already, but maybe not all.  If you are not an ace, the lack of this knowledge is one of the reasons your are not an ace.  :)

Comments, feedback, constructive criticism all welcome.

Offline Lephturn

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2001, 08:38:00 PM »
and do me a favour and punt it every so often will ya?  Please?  :)

Offline Wlfgng

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2001, 08:52:00 PM »
high-five Leph..

much appreciated!

Like you said, I  knew much of it but not all of it... the parts I didn't know will come in very handy   :)

I  may have to ask you to clarify a point, when I return, regarding  setting auto speed to 'save your bacon'.

I'm OTW Denver and will be back late weekend.

Again, great work and much appreciated.
----------------
ok.. so I read the whole thing.. nevermind  :)

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Wlfgng ]

Offline 10Bears

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2001, 09:33:00 PM »
Bookmarked and thx Leph.

You should send a link to HTC to put on their training page FAQs etc.
10B

Offline paintmaw

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2001, 09:43:00 PM »
not sure if i agree with all that  :) but I'm not ready to give out any secrets

Offline CavemanJ

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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2001, 09:48:00 PM »
nice read Leph, I imagine it'll help alot of us out.

I would like to point out a couple of discrepancies though:

 
Quote
from section 5:
Any of the auto trim modes can be switched off by using the manual trim keys, by hitting any of the auto trim mode keys, or by moving your controls significantly.


Auto trim for angle:  Using the manual elevator keys will NOT disengage auto-angle.  You can adjust your pitch angle using the manual 'vator trim while auto-angle is engaged.  I don't recall for sure, but I think you use adjust rudder trim to make small changes to heading w/o disengaging auto-angle also.

Auto trim for speed:  using the manual rudder trim does not disengage auto-speed, but lets you slowly adjust your heading.  This is very useful in formation for holding position.  This also applies to auto-level.

It's been so long since I actually tried all the trim controls with the various auto modes that I can't remember if the aileron trim controls will disengage the auto mode.

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2001, 01:26:00 AM »
Very nice Lepht !

Came back home with a new Joystick yesterday, and it took me 7 augers to discover I had pitch trim keys mapped the wrong way. (I usualy get out of compression in a dive using trim keys, especially in the 109's... this time I plunged 7 times steeper into the ground  :D)
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline mrsid2

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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2001, 05:48:00 AM »
Yeah good article Leph..

I trim manually mostly myself though.
I'd like to hang more with you lepthurn (with the D30) I'm getting very much into it. Only the la7 gives me a very hard time on the main. Maybe some pointers on those?

Offline Lephturn

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2001, 07:02:00 AM »
Caveman... thanks dude, you are correct but I almost never do this so I didn't think of it.  Much appreciated, I'll research this one a bit and fix that.  Can I include a quote of yours in there? (With credit of course.)

paintmaw, no blowin' smoke man... if you disagree at least tell me with what part so we can discuss it.  In private first if you want.  If I've made a mistake I want to fix it.  Having incorrect information out there doesn't help anyone.  Keep your secrets if you must, but please don't let me put false information out there if anything is not right.  Do what's right for the community.  I'll be sure to give you full credit too of course if you like.  I just want to be helping folks here.

I firmly believe that information and articles like this help keep folks interested and active in AH.  It benefits all of us to have lots of helpful and correct information out there for folks to help them enjoy the game.  If anybody sees something wrong, please point it out either here or via email.  sconrad@hfx.eastlink.ca  I would appreciate it, and so will lots of folks who will be reading the article.

Offline CRASH

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2001, 07:29:00 AM »
Nice article, very informative.  That said, it was my understanding that the auto trim/ auto climb features were designed into the game to take some of the load off the player during boring climb outs and such, using them in combat is a bit gamey for my tastes.  Combat trim is for the video game crowd.  Fly the airplane, dont let the computer fly you.

CRASH

 
Quote
Originally posted by Lephturn:
I've finally completed the huge trim article I've been working on... seemingly forever.  I've had this mostly done for a couple months.  Holidays have finally given me the time to finish it.  Wooohoo!

Read this:  http://lephturn.webhop.net/trim.htm

If you are an ace, you know some of this already, but maybe not all.  If you are not an ace, the lack of this knowledge is one of the reasons your are not an ace.    :)

Comments, feedback, constructive criticism all welcome.

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]

Offline Lephturn

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »
Using Combat Trim or the auto-trim modes to control your trim surfaces is no more "gamey" than using a very expensive HOTAS setup and mapping manual trim to hat switches or wheels.  Flying should be about ACM and primary flight controls, not flying the plane with the trim controls.  Combat Trim and the auto-trim modes even the odds a bit for those of us that do not have high end control setups, though they are still not as effective as a killer control setup and manual trim in some situations.

Combat Trim is for everybody in the game.  It's a simple tool that everyone should understand, even if they want to disable it.  Fly the airplane with the flight controls, not the trim tabs.  Combat Trim is a usefull tool and it has it's place in the game.  Manual trim is important too in some situations, but simply disabling CT completely is silly, there are times when it is useful and it can be disabled and enabled quickly and easily.

Regardless of what the intent of any of these trim features was, the fact is they are part of the game.  Understanding how they all work and when to use them is important, even if you decide to disable them.  If not using certain features makes you feel more manly or something, fine, but don't look down on others for using the tools that are available to the best of their ability.

There is a point to be made about CT and how it affects your "feeling of flight" though.  I do think that feeling the trim balance change as your speed changes contributes to the "feel" of the FM for many folks.  I think I'll add some stuff about that in the CT section.

Offline Wanker

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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2001, 10:35:00 AM »
<S> Leph, thanks for this info!

 :)

Offline Lephturn

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2001, 08:53:00 AM »
Update.  I removed a couple of things that were wrong about manual trim disabling the auto-trim modes.  I also expanded on the difference between high-speed control slugishness and compression.  Oh, and I added a bit about Combat Trim and why folks may want to disable it.

Thanks to Andy Bush and CavemanJ for the feedback that allowed me to make these changes.  I still need to research more about using manual trim while the auto-trim modes are engaged, but I plan to add that as well.

I think I'm going to re-write my example flight at the bottom of the article.  It's not really a typical flight at all, just me trying to explain uses for the various trim tools.  I don't like it as-is, I think I'm going to re-write it.

Offline paintmaw

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2001, 09:31:00 AM »
<SALUTE> Great artical , just a few things I do a bit different . I know in some AC such as a heavy spit9 (3 eggs) if you get up to speed app. 200mph you can get the same climb rate as Alt X with higher speed . the LA7 if you get your speed up to around 300 you can climb app. 3000fpm opposed to 160mph in alt+X . Usually in a dog fight I will click combat trim , on and off real quick just to get trimed out . The only other time I use CT is when diving in to drop eggs on a Night Hawk  :) . This may be a bit gamey but it seems to work for me . Also I turn up the wind sounds to get a audio feel for how fast I'm going so I can focus on target without watching my speedometer . Alt+X is a good feature for a smoke break though . These items may not be right but the work for me (not really secrets ) , good job though Lephturn <S>

Offline K West

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Trim Article. Read this or die repeatedly.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2001, 10:05:00 AM »
Really good article Lephturn!

 I was talking to a couple of "flyers" in the CT last night and they were having trouble with manual trim. None of them peruse these boards so there may be some thought as to getting this info out to them better. HTC may want to think about a monthly news bulletin.  :)

 I explained about using CT and then progressing to manual trim but one major issue some face is the lack of a complicated HOTAS setup with enough buttons to use manual trim in an efficient manor.

 I've found that I can easily tell now, after my time in AH with trim, when *any* of the AH planes I'm flying is out of trim. The reported lack of "feel" being absent as one reason for it not being a real life feature needed is due to inexperience imo.  AH trim like simulating shifting with a "12" speed bike. No PC program could ever replicate the "feeling" a rider gets when the resistance to pedaling changes but over time a player can tell when to shift by all the information that IS presented in front of you. Same way for knowing when to use flaps or when you're at the best cornering speed all without having to deliberately looking at the dash guages to note airspeed or the G meter.

Westy