TYAA is a SPY...

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


I don't know that it'll combat people's laissez faire attitude about spies.....

-- Todd/Leviathn

Speak for yourself.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by Fancy
(check the Mindanao map, A29 to A21, it's a long and uncommon route

It's a long route, yes, but uncommon?  No, I don't think it's as uncommon a route as you would like to believe.... I think it is a very popular route for "sneak attacks" and the first place anyone who is defending will look.  He had probably already upped there several times and not found anything.... this time he did.  

I appreciate it must have been frustrating..... but it happens!  Other times you are lucky and get all the way without any problems..... 6 and 2x3s.  

I used to do a similar (but high-alt) run in AW, taking off from a rear field then grabbing alt in a totally different direction before heading towards my target (aircraft factory deep in enemy territory).  I did, of course, show on radar, but by the time I crossed into enemy territory I always made sure I was at least 20-25K high, continuing to climb to 32K as I got nearer the target.  Sometimes, I would be lucky and manage to drop my bombs, fly back to friendly territory and land - sometimes with no gunner!  Other times I would be intercepted.... if I had a gunner on board, fine.... but very often I was alone and we didn't have the ability to self-gun, and I would end up getting shot down.  Yes, it was frustrating at the times, especially if I had just spent the best part of an hour getting there.  I appreciate its not the same as flying under radar, but if anything I enjoyed it more knowing I could be seen.....  

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Fancy
I'm perfectly willing to lighten up and the only thing that really got me hot was your arrogant trolling of my thread.  I'm willing to say that I'm taking this a bit too seriously if you're willing to say that you superlative skills as an AH pilot (A GAME) doesn't give you an unfettered right to display your arrogance.

I never once brought up my skills in this thread, and it's far from arrogant to point out to you that your complaints about spying are hilariously off-base and make you appear clueless.

The fact is that you are taking the game too seriously when you bring events from the arena out onto the forums for everyone to see.  It's possible that TYAA was spying, and it's entirely possible that he wasn't.  One thing is abundantly clear, however, and that is that the damage done to your squad and its collective ego doesn't warrant bashing him on the boards.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[poopster]

A Rook I will remain

Ahhh..

I...eh..

WELL GOOD

I must say though your command of the written word is VERY good for being a rook.

Typing, let alone forming complete sentences usually escapes them..

That, and that thing they all have on their neck..

[Flossy]

Originally posted by Fancy
None of us broke radio silence outside our squad channel.  The mission was not posted.

See.... this is what I don't quite understand..... if you didn't break radio silence outside of your squad channel, and you did not post your mission.... how could he have been spying?  Where would he have got his information from?  

[Fancy]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


your complaints about spying are hilariously off-base and make you appear clueless.

 

Tell me how they're "off base".  So far all you have done is criticized from some delusionally vaunted pespective.  Back it up and bring some meat to the table.  I prepared to dump the ad hominems if you are.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Flossy
See.... this is what I don't quite understand..... if you didn't break radio silence outside of your squad cahnnel, and you did not post your mission.... how could he have been spying?  Where would he have got his information from?  

From "a freind" in another country or a second account... It's happened before Flos.

[Fancy]

Originally posted by Flossy
See.... this is what I don't quite understand..... if you didn't break radio silence outside of your squad cahnnel, and you did not post your mission.... how could he have been spying?  Where would he have got his information from?  

Keep in mind that friendly dots are visible to all friendlies regardless of radar presence.  So, if this person hadn't switched countries in the last 12 hours, they could've done so after spotting our cluster of dots ib.  Or they could have a worm within  the ranks of the Rooks who could have used a private vox or text channel to warn this person.  There are lots of ways it could be done.  Like I said, there's nothing you can do to combat the actual act of spying except maybe calling out the spies who will, hopefully but doubtfully, discontinue their acts out of shame.  Again, if someone wants to spy against me and my squad and my country, then I'll retaliate any way I can.  Note that I haven't whined that anything should be changed as a result of this, I'm just firing the returning shot.  Oh, btw, the mission was on the water AT NIGHT, so spotting our dots would've been difficult.  Like I said, we were well outside visual range (about 2 sectors) when we first saw the dar bar and somehow the con managed to find us immediately.  Also, don't you think someone upping for base defense would grab alt and circle the base if they didn't know from where or when the attack would come?  Why would this person dive to the deck (eliminating their own dar bar) and then leave the base more than a sector behind them?

I'd also like to reiterate that THE MAIN POINT OF THIS THREAD IS:  If spying is an accepted practice, then I'll do what I can to counter-spy.  That's it.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by Tumor
From "a freind" in another country or a second account... It's happened before Flos.

But if they didn't discuss it, how would the "friend" know?  OK, I suppose someone would maybe see them take off and head in that direction.... in which case it must have been obvious from the start that that was where they were headed.  This is my point about taking direct routes..... if they had, for instance, upped from a different field, or if that was not possible, at least flown north or south first, then even a casual onlooker would not know where they were going....  

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Fancy
Tell me how they're "off base".  So far all you have done is criticized from some delusionally vaunted pespective.  Back it up and bring some meat to the table.  I prepared to dump the ad hominems if you are.

(1)  You have no proof that TYAA was spying except your own conjecture.

(2)  Even if TYAA was spying, you should have been prepared for the possibility.  After all, someone could have wandered across your mission by accident anyway, so why weren't you prepared?

(3)  Getting upset that your well-planned milkrun was defeated is understandable; getting angry and baselessly rationalizing it as an act of "spying" is downright silly.

(4)  Mindanao is small, and it's very difficult to mount successful NOE missions due to the widely varying terrain and due to the different altitudes of fields.  It's very easy to be in a position to spot incoming raids.

(5)  Spying probably happens, but it's abundantly clear that it has little overall impact on the game.  Milkrunning occurs successfully all the time.

(6)  Bringing this issue to a public forum like this with nothing more than conjecture to back you up makes you look clueless.

(7)  Threatening to combat spying by spying yourself makes you look silly.  Most everyone would just ignore you... or they'd switch sides and hunt you.

This is far from a "delusionally vaunted" perspective.  You came here with fists flying and mouth foaming, and then you got defensive when people started pointing out how ridiculous you sound.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Fancy]

Originally posted by Flossy
But if they didn't discuss it, how would the "friend" know?  OK, I suppose someone would maybe see them take off and head in that direction.... in which case it must have been obvious from the start that that was where they were headed.  This is my point about taking direct routes..... if they had, for instance, upped from a different field, or if that was not possible, at least flown north or south first, then even a casual onlooker would not know where they were going....  

I'm sorry but wrong.  Remember again that friendly locations are visible to all friendlies.  You could take off in one direction, but eventually you'll have to come into some sort of proximity to your destiantion.  That being said, it is true that usuing unusual flight paths is a good anti-spy technique, but not foolproof.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Flossy
But if they didn't discuss it, how would the "friend" know?  OK, I suppose someone would maybe see them take off and head in that direction.... in which case it must have been obvious from the start that that was where they were headed.  This is my point about taking direct routes..... if they had, for instance, upped from a different field, or if that was not possible, at least flown north or south first, then even a casual onlooker would not know where they were going....  

Your own dar isn't limited, by distance or alt.. you can see your own folks anywhere on the map.  Then comes the "white" channel with a buddy on the other side.  It's very easy to do.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by Fancy
Oh, btw, the mission was on the water AT NIGHT, so spotting our dots would've been difficult.  Like I said, we were well outside visual range (about 2 sectors) when we first saw the dar bar and somehow the con managed to find us immediately.  Also, don't you think someone upping for base defense would grab alt and circle the base if they didn't know from where or when the attack would come?  Why would this person dive to the deck (eliminating their own dar bar) and then leave the base more than a sector behind them?

OK, I accept it could have been somebody spying..... but I suppose I tend to try and see it from both sides, and it could also have just been somebody looking on the offchance that a sneak attack might be on the way.  After all, it was night, so they probably had an idea someone might try to sneak across.  No, he wasn't just doing base defence.... he was looking for a possible raid - and found one!  Could have happened to anybody...    

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


(1)  You have no proof that TYAA was spying except your own conjecture.

Same goes for your argument

(2)  Even if TYAA was spying, you should have been prepared for the possibility.  After all, someone could have wandered across your mission by accident anyway, so why weren't you prepared?

True but....

(3)  Getting upset that your well-planned milkrun was defeated is understandable; getting angry and baselessly rationalizing it as an act of "spying" is downright silly.

ok... why?  You assume Fancy is just a noob who has no idea whats going on or couldn't possibly evaluate a situation for what it's worth and see where the preponderance of evidence points?  Not saying he did or didn't, just saying the possibility is open to more than one conclusion, including others than yours.

(4)  Mindanao is small, and it's very difficult to mount successful NAP missions due to the widely varying terrain and due to the different altitudes of fields.  It's very easy to be in a position to spot incoming raids.

not true, but obviously not open to debate?

(5)  Spying probably happens, but it's abundantly clear that it has little overall impact on the game.  

does his game

(6)  Bringing this issue to a public forum like this with nothing more than conjecture to back you up makes you look clueless.

no comment (see #1)

(7)  Threatening to combat spying by spying yourself makes you look silly.  Most everyone would just ignore you... or they'd switch sides and hunt you.

Or maybe HTC would take a stand on the issue, doubtful but possible

This is far from a "delusionally vaunted" perspective.  You came here with fists flying and mouth foaming, and then you got defensive when people started pointing out how ridiculous you sound.

Wonder why he thinks your arrogant?  I think he's got a valid point... guess I'm ridiculous too

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Fancy]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying


(1)  You have no proof that TYAA was spying except your own conjecture.

I have a film which, I agree does only so much for my case.  But the case is pretty clear and until TYAA is prepared to defend himself I'm willing to go on.  I did actually send a few private messaged to TYAA after the fact but got no responses.

(2)  Even if TYAA was spying, you should have been prepared for the possibility.  After all, someone could have wandered across your mission by accident anyway, so why weren't you prepared?

We were as prepared as we could have been.  You can reasonably expect retaliation after a base starts flashing.  I can say that we were proabably expecting this as it usually happens.  The aspect of our "preparedness" is moot, however.  If we would've gotten close enough to the base that it was flashing AND THEN got interupted, then you wouldn't be hearing about all this.  Like I said, he's pretty clearly engaged in spying/spylike activity, so I'm just trying to defend myself against something that I realistically have no defense.

(3)  Getting upset that your well-planned milkrun was defeated is understandable; getting angry and baselessly rationalizing it as an act of "spying" is downright silly.

I've had other "milkruns" foiled in the past and I was as upset as anyone might expect.  I admitted our own failures and moved on.  There is sufficient base to believe that our failure this time was at least in some way due to spying.  Since the propriety of spying is also a moot point, I'm simply calling out the spy.  Period.

(4)  Mindanao is small, and it's very difficult to mount successful NAP missions due to the widely varying terrain and due to the different altitudes of fields.  It's very easy to be in a position to spot incoming raids.

By chance we were on the water at pretty much dead night.  Spotting is not an issue as the con upped from the base when we were well outside of visual range.

(5)  Spying probably happens, but it's abundantly clear that it has little overall impact on the game.  Milkrunning occurs successfully all the time.

Spying does occur.  Last night was the first clear case that I experienced.  Now, a meager form of counter-spying now occurs.  Why is this har for you to accept?  If you think I'm wasting my time, why are you wasting even more time debating me?

(6)  Bringing this issue to a public forum like this with nothing more than conjecture to back you up makes you look clueless.

This is the same as point 1

(7)  Threatening to combat spying by spying yourself makes you look silly.  Most everyone would just ignore you... or they'd switch sides and hunt you.

Well, provided I actually do it, it would be a form of protest.  And if I did do it, I'd need not even leave the tower.  Like I said, it sounds BORING, so I probably won't.  So, I'll just make this a more public issue instead.  After all, these may be public forums but they are forums devoted to AH.

This is far from a "delusionally vaunted" perspective.  You came here with fists flying and mouth foaming, and then you got defensive when people started pointing out how ridiculous you sound.

To date, you're they only one trying to point out how ridiculous I sound.  At least Flossy was civil.  You played the troll (you even admitted it yourself) from the very start.

-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]