Author Topic: The single most important feature of 1.08..  (Read 1727 times)

Offline DanielMcIntyre

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2001, 04:21:00 AM »
Oh and btw, anyone who claims the N1K is easily defeated is a liar.  An N1K flown by an equally skilled pilot coalt and same speed is not easily defeated.  You will most probably be killed or at least will have a difficult time getting the kill.  A high N1K is very difficult to beat.

Offline Karnak

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2001, 04:43:00 AM »
Zygote,

If the N1K2 is co-alt and co-speed you already screwed up.

Yes, if I tie both hands behind my back I do have trouble fighting.  :rolleyes: Duh.

The advantage that something like an Fw190D-9 brings to the table is speed and alt. If the N1K2 is co-alt with me I can still run.

Asking for the fight to start co-alt and co-speed is like asking the N1K2 to start the fight with 2 guns emptied and to not pull more than 3 Gs.  It is a crippling requirement.

I'm willing to be that if a real Fw190D-9 and N1K2-J were to start co-alt and co-speed the Dora would be in a world of trouble.

N1K2s are easy to survive against.  No lie.
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Offline Steven

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2001, 02:17:00 PM »
Yes, N1Ks are easy to survive against because there are many poor-sticks flying the thing.  In capable hands, that's a completely different story.  Last night, flying an F6F, I encountered a N1K that flew head-and-shoulders above the typical N1K that I run into.  Had I not had the help of friendlies around, this N1K flown by Urchin would've handed me my tailplane all wrapped up in a pretty bow with a letter of condolence.  

The N1K flown by a good stick is very deadly, in my opinion.  More so than any other aircraft I personally encounter.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zygote:
btw A Korean era mig has predictable flight attributes and were shot down by piston engined fighters in Korea, why don't we add these then.  Because that would unbalance the Arena.  Just like the N1K is doing now.


Is ignoring the points I've made an attribute of those who revile the N1K2?  I haven't even addressed whether or not the N1K belongs in the arena, nor have I denied that it is "broken."  My point is that, broken or not, the "impossible moves" that it pulls are predictably impossible and therefore easily countered.  As such, it is an easy kill.  To respond to your specific point, I don't think the N1K as currently modelled is unbalancing in any way other than being overused.

 
Quote
You fly what you like, I'll fly a N1K and kill your bellybutton unless your at 25k or running back to base or your a Spit, La7 or Yak.

Woah, wait a minute.  Now you're qualifying your statement?  What's so special about Spits, La7s, and Yaks that they miraculously cancel the effectiveness of N1Ks?  Hm.

-- Todd/DMF

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Dead Man Flying ]

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2001, 02:27:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zygote:
Oh and btw, anyone who claims the N1K is easily defeated is a liar.  An N1K flown by an equally skilled pilot coalt and same speed is not easily defeated.  You will most probably be killed or at least will have a difficult time getting the kill.  A high N1K is very difficult to beat.

Any plane flown by an equally skilled pilot against you should be a difficult kill.  The N1K is no different.  Any plane with altitude is more difficult to beat than a co-alt or lower plane.  I fear a high 51 or 109G-10 more than I do a high N1K, as I know both have the qualities that can truly allow them to dominate a fight with an alt advantage.

I stand by my statement.  The N1K is an easy kill.  I'm 107 and 23 against them this tour.

-- Todd/DMF

Offline Animal

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2001, 02:30:00 PM »
"niki whiner whiners"


lol. you are stupid.
so you admit you are a shameless whiner?

whine boy, whine loud! htc dont care about whiners anyways.

highflyer

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2001, 02:52:00 PM »
n1k = easy plane to fly and get kills in.

n1k = plane that can be flown as Energy fighter or as Turn plane.

n1k = plane that if anyone has an inkling of know-how of ACM has a high chance of survival.

n1k = plane that can be VERY hard to defend agaist/fight against co-E/Alt with pilot of equal skilset.

n1k = overall simple, low learning curve, easy to use fighter.

n1k = less pilot intervention to put terms on your side compared to fighting with most all other planes in AH.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2001, 03:05:00 PM »
Creamo, I'll take those beers now.  I need 'em!   :D

-- Todd/DMF

Offline Vermillion

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2001, 04:26:00 PM »
Zygote, if you have the data to prove all these claims, why haven't you shared them with us and Pyro over in the Aircraft & Vehicles section?

I'll be the first to say the N1K2 needs work right now, especially in its E retention, but I haven't seen anything near what your claiming.

Yes the N1K2 can be deadly, but like DMF has said, its predictable and beat able.

The pilot who can engage and disengage at will, controls the fight.

If your getting killed by N1K2's your either making bad choices in the fight, or your SA is failing. Oh, or maybe your just a Spit pilot  ;)

Offline AKSWulfe

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2001, 04:35:00 PM »
I'll be sure to file this under the "Drugged up" folder in the X-Files next time I'm near the Pentagon.

Lay off the crack, it does bad things to your teeth.
-SW

Offline SOB

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2001, 05:22:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zygote:
I'm sick of having to climb to enormous alts because I like to fly the Typhoon and know that a high N1K is probably gonna kill me or make me run for cover.  I pay my AH fee too and should be able to fly what I want and at reasonable alt and have a fair chance against other AC in the MA.

Check.  So, from now on HTC should first ask this question before they even think about modeling a plane:  "If we choose to model this plane, will it possibly cause Zygote (flying his plane of choice) to choose to climb to 'enormous alts' and possibly run away when spotting this plane at a higher alt?".  And, if the answer to either point is yes, they simply won't model the plane.  I guess they can just move on to modelling more features now then.    :rolleyes:


SOB

BTW...If this game was fair, it'd suck.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline DanielMcIntyre

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2001, 01:09:00 AM »
I find the Spitfire, La7 and Yak more dangerous while flying the Typhoon then the N1K, usually because these planes are flown by virtual pilots with better SA and ACM / E management skills.  N1K seem to be a lot less skilled and / or overconfident.  However you put a skilled pilot in an N1K and the situation changes dramatically.


example:

Mindanao Map

I take off from field in a heavy Typhoon full fuel and droptanks.  Just after takeoff I spot a Bish D11 attacking a IL2 on the deck. I hit Wep and attack the Jug, we go vertical and then eventually after a series of passes where I score some hits, we go flat turn until I kill him.

I kill the same pilot half hour later again in Typhoon v D11.

The next day I'm killed prolly 10 times by the this pilot, I don't kill him once. He's in a 10 vs 2 and gets 9 kills.   What variable has changed?

He's flying an N1K.

And the reason I don't post the data I have on the N1K is simply because its a waste of time, the whiner whiners will just find some way of invalidating it or disregard it altogether.  There is no proof that will satisfy someone who argues for the sake of arguing.

If you want it, make up a temp email and i'll send it to you.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2001, 01:21:00 AM »
Zygote,

Its e-retention being reduced should lower its ability to kill in a zoom climb.

However, it is a late 1944 aircraft and your Typhoon was considered a disappointment in air-to-air combat. The N1K2 will still be leathal in the hands of a veteran AH pilot after the 1.08 changes have gone live.

What I do with the Typhoon vs. N1K2 is come in with a strong altitude advantage.  I never pull more than 3 Gs during the fight and I make sure to leave if he is starting to equalize the energy situation.  Doing that I usually win against N1K2s. I mostly flew the Typhoon and Fw190D-9 in Tour 20 and came out with a 9 to 3 record against N1K2s, and two of those deaths were while I was flying Spitfire MkVs and Ki-61s.

An Ace in an N1K2 is definately something to respect, and I don't think that's going to change.
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2001, 01:55:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zygote:
I take off from field in a heavy Typhoon full fuel and droptanks.  Just after takeoff I spot a Bish D11 attacking a IL2 on the deck. I hit Wep and attack the Jug, we go vertical and then eventually after a series of passes where I score some hits, we go flat turn until I kill him.

I kill the same pilot half hour later again in Typhoon v D11.

The next day I'm killed prolly 10 times by the this pilot, I don't kill him once. He's in a 10 vs 2 and gets 9 kills.   What variable has changed?

He's flying an N1K.


And here's my guess as to what happened here.  Judging from the description you gave of how you fought this pilot in the P-47, you used the Typhoon's superior flatturning capabilities (yes, it actually can flatturn reasonably well with speed) to defeat him.  His mistake was attempting to turn and use the vertical against, apparently, an aircraft that was better at it than his was.

Later, when he grabbed a N1K, you probably attempted to fight him exactly the same way, now playing to the strengths of his aircraft and not yours.  Naturally you died for it... again and again and again.  Why should this come as surprise to you?  At slow and medium speeds, the N1K usually outturns the Typhoon.  It'll also outroll it and probably outdive it from from slow speed up to medium speed, though in my experience the Typhoon easily outaccelerates the N1K at medium to high speeds.  The N1K certainly retains E better at all speeds and likely suffers from less parasitic drag.

So how should you have fought the N1K?  Because the Typhoon bleeds E much faster than the N1K, and also because it accelerates better at medium to high speeds, the best strategy is to get the fight as fast as possible, then turn inside the N1K for a snapshot or two.  When you get down to medium speed doing so, you should still be able to accelerate away in a dive.

If you stuck around and died after getting slow, he deserved to beat you.

-- Todd/DMF

Offline DanielMcIntyre

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The single most important feature of 1.08..
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
I did'nt die vs that pilot in Typhoon, very rarely die to N1K in Typhoon, as DeadMan said earlier, the N1K is predictable, usually a HO merge and then a rediculously high zoom, followed by rediculously fast accelerated dive etc etc.

In Tour 20 I killed 17 N1K's in tiffie and was killed 3 times by N1K in tiffie.  5.6 to 1

This tour, I've been killed once and killed 5 N1K's.  5 to 1

But just because I can kill them quite easily in the Tiffie does'nt mean they should be allowed to swamp the arena like they do.  Its unbalancing, they have serious problems, they have the same eny rating as the CHOG which is perked, yet they remain unperked.

As I mentioned earlier they can apparantly accelerate faster from a lower alttitude while performing 180 degree manuevers then a diving Typhoon flying a straight path.  They have no torque etc etc.  This is all BS and should be fixed.  

IMO they make the game very quakelike and I find this unenjoyable and I know a lot of other people do too.

BTW Dead Man, what is your online nick?