The single most important feature of 1.08..

[DanielMcIntyre]

The D11 is far superior in a flat turn as well as vertical vs Tiffie IMO.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Zygote:
I did'nt die vs that pilot in Typhoon, very rarely die to N1K in Typhoon, as DeadMan said earlier, the N1K is predictable, usually a HO merge and then a rediculously high zoom, followed by rediculously fast accelerated dive etc etc.

The N1K accelerates well from low speed to medium speed.  If you put yourself in a position where you have to outaccelerate a N1K from below 200mph in a Typhoon, you're in trouble.  The N1K appears to do the 180 thing so well because it can whip around, get slow, and then get fast again in a hurry.  Don't play that game.

 

In Tour 20 I killed 17 N1K's in tiffie and was killed 3 times by N1K in tiffie.  5.6 to 1

This tour, I've been killed once and killed 5 N1K's.  5 to 1

Then you understand that they're easy to kill, and that Caligula's assertion that HTC "fixing" the flight model is the best thing in 1.08 is simply wrong.  This was my original point, and you've just supported it.

 

But just because I can kill them quite easily in the Tiffie does'nt mean they should be allowed to swamp the arena like they do.  Its unbalancing, they have serious problems, they have the same eny rating as the CHOG which is perked, yet they remain unperked.

This has absolutely nothing to do with any of the points you made early.  You argued that the N1K's flight model was screwy earlier, but now you're arguing that they should be perked because of their numbers?  I believe I actually stated earlier that the only thing unbalancing about the N1Ks was their overabundance; the perception that they're vastly superior planes drives their overuse, but it doesn't necessarily make them vastly superior planes either.

 

As I mentioned earlier they can apparantly accelerate faster from a lower alttitude while performing 180 degree manuevers then a diving Typhoon flying a straight path.  They have no torque etc etc.  This is all BS and should be fixed.

More unsubstantiated claims about the N1K's incredible capabilities.  I think N1K opponents will be pretty disappointed at how well the plane still performs even after the flight model revisions.

 

IMO they make the game very quakelike and I find this unenjoyable and I know a lot of other people do too.

So if it turns out that the "neutered" N1K is still an incredibly powerful plane, will you still find the game unenjoyable?  This despite the fact that it would be as accurately modelled as possible by HTC?  Beyond perking it, I wonder what you'd do then.

 

BTW Dead Man, what is your online nick?

Varied depending on when I played.  

-- Todd/DMF

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Zygote:
The D11 is far superior in a flat turn as well as vertical vs Tiffie IMO.

Probably in a sustained turn, but I've found few planes that turn as well instanteously as the Typhoon.

And this from someone who flew the Typhoon for three or four tours as Calamari.  I know my Tiffies.  

-- Todd/DMF

[Karnak]

Zygote,

What would you rather the arena was swamped with?

Spitfire MkIXs? (Only 300 of these were built, BTW. 100 less than the number of N1K2-Js built.)

P-51Ds?

La-7s?

I think that the N1K2 is far, far preferable to either of those.  Most planes can run from an N1K2 and then return with the advantage.

Against hordes of La-7s and P-51Ds most well liked aircraft are simply so much scrap.

When you claim that it is imbalancing, consider how imbalancing the alternatives would be.

[R4M]

Last day I flew before moving out from city I flew a Fw190A8 ,baltic map, S of A24 I think.

There was a massive furball there between knits and bishops. I had already 7 kills when I saw apar low tangling with a N1K2. I made a pass and missed the shot. Did a loop and came in again and found that Apar was already dead. I fired at the lower/slower nik, wich was doing a close-to-right turn, using the 190's instantaneous turnrate to win a deflection shot, but I missed. I levelled pointing towards home because low fuel. The N1K2 completed his 360deg turn, levelled behind me. All this at some 3K of alt.

3 minutes later I was dead. The %!"$ing UFO caught me even when I dived on him, fired, and made him turn 360 degrees while I was already egressing.

If the N1K2 is properly fixed, this kind of BS will never happen again. And that IMO makes it 1,08 worth enough, even without any more additions.

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by R4M:
3 minutes later I was dead. The %!"$ing UFO caught me even when I dived on him, fired, and made him turn 360 degrees while I was already egressing.

3 minutes later?  That is a completely differently part of the fight then.  3 minutes is plenty of time to get co-e with a higher faster bandit, especially if he is over confident with his own E state...  Maybe you did something in those 3 minutes that got you killed?

The n1k is better than it should be but it is NOT a UFO...  I'm not a very good stick but I still had a k/d against the n1k higher than 1 last tour.  I'm looking forward to the FM revision but I think all this Niki whining is exactly that: whining.

From the Merriam Dictionary:
 

Main Entry: whine
Pronunciation: 'hwIn, 'wIn
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whined; whin·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hwInan to whiz; akin to Old Norse hvIna to whiz
Date: 13th century
intransitive senses
1 a : to utter a high-pitched plaintive or distressed cry b : to make a sound similar to such a cry
2 : to complain with or as if with a whine

There it is.  All these guys are doing is whizzing.  

[DanielMcIntyre]

I'm not whining, just stating a plain logical fact.  

The N1K is incorrectly / insufficiently modeled.  

The Chog spins around and kills you when you land if not handled properly while the N1K2-J lands like a dream.  Pity all the N1K2-J pilots are dead, they would whiz emselfs if they saw that.  

The Typhoon has lots of torque, while the N1K2-J with a much lighter body and same HP engine does not?

The P38 has a similiar climb rate to the N1K2-J although the N1K2-J was reported to be "unsuccessful as a bomber interceptor due to its poor climb rate".

I could go on, but i'm becoming bored of this topic so I won't.


I don't complain about La7's, Spits, any other planes, I don't whine when I die I <S>, even when I'm ganged by many cons.  

My aim is not to annoy or complain for the sake of complaining.  I sincerely enjoy AH and believe it to be the greatest flight sim / game ever produced.  

However I find it somewhat offensive when a person feels they need to fly an AC in a game which gives them a significant advantage over another player(s), but most of all I find it offensive that they then try to deny this fact here on the BBS.  


Somewhat akin to cheating at Chess.


BTW Karnak, I would prefer an arena full of La7's and Spit 9's as long as thier FMs were correctly modeled, I would have nothing to complain about.

[R4M]

Blue mako, f%$% off with your stupid "whiner" thing. I bounced a Niki wich did a 360degree turn and followed me. I egressed towards home in a nominally faster plane at the optimum altitude.

HE CAUGHT ME IN LESS THAN 2 MINUTES, smartass. The last minute was me trying to shake him off (quite difficult thing to do in a 190A8), the two previous minutes was me running with HIM CLOSING THE F#"%$ing GAP. I didnt turn, I didnt change heading. Nothing, nada. Nil. I bounced a N1K2 wich was just finished a low and slow fight and HE DAMNED caught me.

If you still that is something near acceptable, then go play Xwing.

[R4M]

P.S. take a look at my last scores on K/D with nikis. I have no problem killing them, but I darned have a problem when I see toejam like that.

[highflyer]

R4M how fast were you going in the dive away from the n1k??

[R4M]

I will describe the setup from the start.


I was at 5K, around 2K over the N1K2 and pointing at him, coming down from my previous loop. He just killed Apar at that time. He had seen me and started a very closed flat break turn towards the right. While diving I pulled into him to cut the angle and get a deflection shot. I fired but missed; as soon as I was pointing towards home, I immediatly levelled the plane and straighted it for RTB (I had 7 kills at that time,and had less than 12% fuel). He completed the 360 deg. turn and followed me.

I got as far as some 2.5K, but he IMMEDIATLY started gaining on me. when he got at 700 yards he started shooting and soon he had kicked my rudder out of the plane. I tried to shake him off but was next to impossible. In a few seconds I was dead.

Wich was my speed when I levelled and started to run away?. not sure. Maybe 250mph, maybe a bit more (this happened 2 weeks ago).

 All I know is that he had JUST finished a CLOSE FIGHT against Apar,and that when I came in from my previous loop, he was LOWER and WAY SLOWER than me. When I levelled, I had done a turn of less than 120 degrees trying to get the deflection shot. He turned a whooping 360 and he got me.

I call that BS. I know there were a couple of knit witnesses around there (as I said that happened near a big furball), I dont recall who were they -I think that Rocket was around the zone at that time, not sure if he saw that.

Still I took it quite well, even though that niki cut off a 25+ streak in Fw190A8 without getting shot down. But it was full of BS, and I keep what I said: even if 1.08 brings only a fixed FM to the Niki it will be well worth the wait.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Dead Man Flying]

I find it amusing that those who seem to be complaining about N1Ks also qualify their complaints by demonstrating how much success they have while flying against them.

I guess they agree with me then that "fixing" the N1K, no matter what that entails, will make an easy kill even easier after all.

For all the complaining about miraculous manuevers, 360 degree insta-turns for HO shots, UFO flight properties, and more... if we all seem to kill them more than they kill us, I fail to see what all the fuss is about.  The N1K flight model will be corrected, and if that increases its accuracy I'm for it 100% -- regardless of whether that improves or degrades its relative performance.

-- Todd/DMF

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
The N1K flight model will be corrected, and if that increases its accuracy I'm for it 100% -- regardless of whether that improves or degrades its relative performance.

Agreed.

The only thing I've found wrong (actually tested) was it's ability to retain control (even over the ailerons) at 0MPH in a 90degree vertical zoom. Tested this offline, and it acted as if enough air was moving over the ailerons at 0MPH that it could still roll rather decently. I could hold it at that attitude until it could no longer produce enough power to hold itself upright. Then when it exited flight, it went into a spin and promptly corrected itself with no input from me.

That's the only thing I've found to be incorrect.
-SW

[R4M]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
I find it amusing that those who seem to be complaining about N1Ks also qualify their complaints by demonstrating how much success they have while flying against them.

I guess they agree with me then that "fixing" the N1K, no matter what that entails, will make an easy kill even easier after all.

Todd, I never said a N1K2 is a difficult target. I dont think is exactly an easy target, either, even when I never had serious trouble dealing with them. It just happens that sometimes when you KNOW you have done the CORRECT move at the PROPER TIME, you get SERIOUSLY pissed off because the other plane has gotten you in a very weird way, when he shouldn't have done it.

Just as an example, look what I said before, a 7 kill sortie, 25+ kill streak sent to hell because the N1K2 E retaining is unbeliable. That sort of things tend to seriously piss me off.

I dont want, and I couldnt care the less about having easier or harder targets. I just want to survive and RTB if I fly my plane properly, not being surprised by some BS move that a porked plane can do.

I dont care if the N1K2 is an easy kill or not, all I know is that the plane can do some things it shouldnt, and that given the great use the N1K2 sees I can't wait to see it fixed.

Hope that now you get my point  

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by R4M:
Todd, I never said a N1K2 is a difficult target. I dont think is exactly an easy target, either, even when I never had serious trouble dealing with them. It just happens that sometimes when you KNOW you have done the CORRECT move at the PROPER TIME, you get SERIOUSLY pissed off because the other plane has gotten you in a very weird way, when he shouldn't have done it.

I know where you're coming from.    But another point I made earlier is that, in my experience at least, the N1K has never pulled an unbelievable manuever against me.  Don't get me wrong, it can pull some fantastic stuff... but I'm never surprised when it does it.  I'm at the point where I know the limits of its capabilities regardless of how great those capabilities might be.  Any time I die to one, I know it was my fault.  I can't remember the last time the N1K pulled a move on me that left me exasperated or bewildered.

-- Todd/DMF