Author Topic: New Gameplay coming? I hope.  (Read 688 times)

Offline lazs2

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New Gameplay coming? I hope.
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2002, 08:12:48 AM »
puck said..."Ah, but that's the beauty. You can't stop us from "ruining" your fun. Fields will be captured whether it suits you or not. Hangers will be destroyed, goons will be dropped, furballs will be born, grow old and stale, then die.

Haven't I mentioned those things requiring the least talent are the things I'm most talented at?

One of these days when you're bored you can help me improve my 1v1 skill set. Until then I have to muddle through doing what a can."

no.. and I wouldn't want to.   The fact that you are trying to take fields (and dieing a lot) is what feeds the furball.   I want you to attempt to take the base but...  I don't want you to be able to make it useless so eaisly.  

As for me teaching you anything... I am not a good teacher.   better that you actually engage in some fitghts and then you will learn about it.   With your average of less than 4 kills per hour it will take you a long time to get past your 1/1 k/d ratio in fighters.  you simply need to get more experiance.
lazs

Offline ghostdancer

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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2002, 08:48:59 AM »
Right now basically the the MA is about numbers. While numbers are not everything usually the fact that you can die and up again right afterwards turns the arena to a war of attrition or war of wills. There is no real penalty for dying or incentive (out of stats) for not dying. Leading to suicide tiffie missions among others.

Maybe if something as simple as putting a time penalty in place would correct some of the problems associated with unlimited deaths and unlimited reups.

Simply say if you lose your place you can not respawn for a 1 minute or 2 minutes. Basically a time period that will make people try to land there planes instead of losing them but not too long that people would log off do to annoyance that they can not fly.

Just a crazy thought I had off the top of my head.
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Offline Midnight

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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2002, 11:17:46 AM »
Time penalty would not really be too much of an incentive to live and fly home unless it was a long penalty. If it takes 10 minutes to fly back, and only 1 minute of penalty... well... the auger types will just auger.

Give everyone 4 lives per hour. If they use them up carelessly, then they have to wait for the next hour before they can get a new vehicle. Allow them to be a gunner or drive all the goons they want, just not insta-spawning every 20 seconds.

People love to whine and say how this is a game and that there is nothing wrong with 'gaming'. For them, I say look at it this way...

Even in Quake, you don't start out with the BFG super power gun and mega-armor. You start with a pistol. You have to earn power ups and special items.

So, here is Aces High... You can insta-spawn as much as you want in C47s and M3s or gunner positions, but you only get to choose a new 'power-up' ride 4 times per hour. Think of everything that is not listed previously as a 'power up' item.

The gamers are used to that kind of thing in every other game out there (the concept of having to earn the 'power ups' by staying alive and getting by with the standard issue gun/car/sword/whatever until they find them) so why not the same concept in Aces High?

Offline Pepe

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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2002, 11:29:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight


... The gamers are used to that kind of thing in every other game out there (the concept of having to earn the 'power ups' by staying alive and getting by with the standard issue gun/car/sword/whatever until they find them) so why not the same concept in Aces High?


Because we are not gamers, you gamer  ;) . We are not that low. We are simmers, and appreciate historical engagements in historical rides... Btw, are you calling me a gamer????  :D

Cheers,

Offline Puck

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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2002, 11:38:21 AM »
Of course therein lies the problem.  AH has to cater to both the gamers AND the simmers.  The gamers will have a fit if they can't up from anywhere in anything and suicide run to their hearts content.  The simmers want to limit any play that doesn't fit their ideal of a simulation.  The needs are contradictory, and the solution is unlikely to make both camps happy.

Other than baiting Lazs I don't have an answer that's likely to improve the current situation.  Personally I'm more of a simmer than a gamer so I'd like to see "more realistic" play.
//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
])+(__/((___<<___)+___))-((___&

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2002, 11:49:50 AM »
Click down below


SKurj

Offline Innominate

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« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2002, 11:56:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight

Give everyone 4 lives per hour. If they use them up carelessly, then they have to wait for the next hour before they can get a new vehicle. Allow them to be a gunner or drive all the goons they want, just not insta-spawning every 20 seconds.


I've been putting some thought into a possibility even more diabolical...

It's similar to the idea of having the available number of planes limited, but instead of applying it per team, it's applied per-player.

Each plane would gain two new values, in addition to ENY and cost.  "Maximum Available" and "Build time".

Each player would start off with the maximum available of each plane.  Everytime they died in one, that player would lose one count for that plane(It's per-player, what other players do has no effect on your personal hangar)  

If the player didnt have the maximum number of planes available, they would gradually rebuild, with the build time representing how long it takes to replace a single plane with a countries strat at 100%.  As a country's strat got bombed, the rebuild rate would drop(perhaps to as much as 25% of normal)  Your hangar would rebuild while you're offline, not just in-game.  This would give strat a usefull roll, and make it somewhat more important since it would effect you even when you weren't online.

EVERY plane would gain a cost, not just the perk planes, based on the plane.  (My thoughts are 1-10 perks for everything up to but excluding the 40 ENY planes)  If you ran out of a specific plane, it would cost you the cost * the percentage of the build time left before another plane would be available.  So if you had lost all of your spit9's, and it's cost was set at 10(just for simplicity) build time at 1 hour, and you had 30 minutes before the next one would be available, it would cost you 5 perks(Half the build time left, half the perks).  And the timer for the plane currently being "built" would be reset.  Also, when you "bought" a plane, the perks would be immediatly removed from your count, and the available counter increased.   (In effect instantly finishing the "construction")

This system does have one large advantage in that, it makes planes like the 262 available even to newbies, without letting them takeover the arena.
So, perk planes would have a maximum available of only one(excepting perhaps the f4u1c, and ta152, which might be higher, and the 234 which would be 3 to allow for a formation) and a long build time(weeks to a month)

As for the "free" planes, the build times for most of the currently free planes would be set up so that there were ~5 planes available, and a rebuild time of ~4 hours.  The reasoning is fairly simple.  It's designed so as to have no penealty for those who don't have the time to play more than an hour or so a day.  (Hard to lose 5 of any plane that quickly, short of letting yourself get vulched!)  Those who DO play longer will have the perks available to fly the planes they want to, but suicide type attacks would be dramaticly lowered.

I personally believe that a system like this would not only do a better job of getting more of a variety of planes into the air, but offer some very strong reasons to fly the very high eny planes, that aren't normally flown, especially for things like base defense.  (Giving the fighter-only planes an attack option would probably do a lot also)  It adds a cost to dying constantly, but a cost which pretty much anyone can afford, even though they can afford it, it will get people to put a bit more thought into dying.

So there is a good reason to avoid dying, perks are more usefull, and there is little practical restriction to planes, short of constant, short lived, suicides.(i.e. letting yourself get vulched)

Wow, if you've gotten this far, please comment and tell me how wrong I am.  No cheating and posting before reading the whole design!

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2002, 12:19:17 PM »
Innominate

Sounds like a good idea. I would go for something along these lines if HTC were to implement it.

You can still fly what you like, you just have to be a little more careful with it.

This would still allow constant respawning during base attacks, but would prevent said spawning from being LA7s every time.

Offline Mooja

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« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2002, 12:22:49 PM »
Midnight has it right.  Improve the strat and everything else takes care of itself.

SKurj has alot of good ideas but I suspect it would take 10 man years to implement them all.

Innominate is going the wrong way.  If I can't fly the plane I want them i'm going to log off and play a game I like.  If you want to limit plane types then do it to the guys that are landing double digit kills in 262's.  Those guys are reducing the "fun" factor for the masses much more than the lawn dart guys.  It's not fun flying 15 mins and then dying within 10 seconds of seeing a red icon.

Offline Apache

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« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2002, 01:44:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mooja
Midnight has it right.  Improve the strat and everything else takes care of itself.

SKurj has alot of good ideas but I suspect it would take 10 man years to implement them all.

Innominate is going the wrong way.  If I can't fly the plane I want them i'm going to log off and play a game I like.  If you want to limit plane types then do it to the guys that are landing double digit kills in 262's.  Those guys are reducing the "fun" factor for the masses much more than the lawn dart guys.  It's not fun flying 15 mins and then dying within 10 seconds of seeing a red icon.


I disagree with your interpretation. One you can do something about, the other is out of our hands.

If one is getting killed by 262's, they need to practice. Just get out of his way and he'll blow right past you.

What can one do about the subject matter?

There are hordes of "lawn dart guys". Multiple kill 262 sorties are rare.

Offline Mooja

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« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2002, 02:01:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apache


I disagree with your interpretation. One you can do something about, the other is out of our hands.


If you want to press the point then you can do someting about both.  i.e. Lawn darters may have a higher tendency to fly home if they didn't feel their death was already inevitable.  Break off the attack and most likely they won't lawn dart.  You can see though that this would be about as fun a dodging a 262 vulcher all night long.

Quote

If one is getting killed by 262's, they need to practice. Just get out of his way and he'll blow right past you.


...and past you... and past you... and past you....  It might be easier just to lawn dart and up somewhere else so he can aim his insessant vulchfest on some other slug.  Or maybe just log off and go do something fun.

Quote

There are hordes of "lawn dart guys". Multiple kill 262 sorties are rare.


Lawn dart guys affect one person behind them.  262 vulchers affect potentially dozens per sortie all night long.  I think it would be a stretch to call them rare as well.  I see them quite frequently.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2002, 02:06:11 PM »
There is a simpler solution.   You can't perk more planes or a lot of guys will squeal... you can't make people wait and do nothing as a penalty..

What yu can do is perk bombs.

Make every bomb over a single 250 lb bomb a perk.   In order to earn a perk bomber point you have to survive the mission and hit something besides the bare ground or ocean.

That will reduce the suicide bomber problem somewhat and... it is adjustable by perk point value.
lazs

Offline Apache

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« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2002, 02:08:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mooja


Lawn dart guys affect one person behind them.  262 vulchers affect potentially dozens per sortie all night long.  I think it would be a stretch to call them rare as well.  I see them quite frequently.


Statistically, your argument has no merit. Using this tour, the 262 has 2889 kills. Why, that monster of all monsters, the Yak9U has almost double the kills at 5926.

Yes, rare indeed.

Offline Mooja

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« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2002, 02:20:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apache


Statistically, your argument has no merit. Using this tour, the 262 has 2889 kills. Why, that monster of all monsters, the Yak9U has almost double the kills at 5926.

Yes, rare indeed.


I see nothing in those stats that speak to multi-kill sorties.  If you've been following then you'd know that is a main point.

Offline Apache

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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2002, 02:31:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mooja


I see nothing in those stats that speak to multi-kill sorties.  If you've been following then you'd know that is a main point.


You mis-understand this debate. The argument is, what affects game play the most? You stated that 262 vultchers had more affect than "lawn dart guys". The fact that said 262 kills were multi-kill sorties or not has no bearing.