Author Topic: IJN Pilots I need help!  (Read 675 times)

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« on: November 12, 2002, 12:22:30 PM »
As quted by OLDMAN.
Quote
So what happens? The allies learn to fly together, and as a team the P40s do pretty well.



Guys I am not sure how to ask this but here it goes.......I haven't been doing much flying as I normaly do in the CT. Even when we get back to my favorite ride (A6M), I find it hard to fight with simi-furballing. When there is nothing but a long steady line to a furball well there is not much to do but fight kill then be killed. (HArd to RTB in a zero whan the P-40 can catch ya!)

However, when there is a pretty nice 4 vs 4 or so fight with only one or two late commers (straglers), this is what I see.......Most allied fighters group up even if they are not squad mates. They enter the fight as a group while we...yes even I am guilty at times, enter the fight one by one. By the time "we" all get into the fight, one of us gets killed fast leaving the allies still grouped together as a team. Normally one by one we get picked off.

Another one is when there are several IJN pilots vs one or two Allies. For some unknown ungodly reason all IJN pilots swarm in to kill one plane. That is not needed and leaves nobody left to watch the enguaged pilot(s) six!!!!!!!!!!

Last night was one of the worst examples of this...I was in on a con with no IJN pilot within shooting distance. I closed in and began gaining a good close shooting position. After several turns (knowing several IJN pilots near by) I began firing hitting the aircraft and relaxing on my SA. The next thing I know I see tracers comming over my shoulder. With this I look back to check and notice it is a friendly. When I look back foward to continue the fight....the con had turned away while I was checking MY SIX!!!!!! I was out and climbed back up while the other IJN pilot continued and shot down the con.

 Personaly I dont care who gets credit or if I get help. My point on this fight is that I lost site of the con I was shooting at due to having to look back to see what the FUC## was shooting at or past me!!!!!!!

 Another example was when I was in the process of aiding someone to gain a good shooting advantage on a con, several others joined in on the fight, instead of remaining high cover for the "In Trail, Late commers" We dont need 3 or 4 IJN pilots vs 2 cons if the two IJN pilots work properly to gain a tail-nose shooting position advantage. While these other friendlies were enguaging, this left no one to watch the (already enguaged dont need help) fighters. Knowing that there were several other friendlies nearby I eased up on my SA and low and behold I almost got shot down. I felt the need to check my own six and a Hurrican almost got me. This is an insult to both me and the other dead IJN  flyers that die because of this type flying. This is not a one time acurance and I am just as guilty as just about everyone. I see it all the time. You dont need to be in a squad to fly right.

Another example was when I was in tight on a con when I was cut off by an allied pilot, another overshoulder shooter, when I broke off due to having to check my six and loosing site of the con. I damaged the con but the other pilot continued. I told him I was out and repositioning but would RTB if not needed. As I said that he said he also was off because of damage caused from an earlier fight. The con got away because this guy interfered without advising of his enguaging and his status.

There are times that I do get frustratded and bust in for a steal kill but I shouldnt do it. Most of the time I do not enguage unless I am needed but remain out of the fight and cover/call six calls for those nose-tail concentrating on the "kill". It only takes a split sec to loose the advantage because of some unanounced friendly more than anything, "overshoulder shooting". While all these IJN pilots are unnecessarily trying to shoot down the same allied plane, the other allied planes are setting up thier enguagement.

This TOD is a very good set-up. I love it when a con runs, it normally means that I will RTB ALIVE..kill or no kill

Currently this set-up as FIGHTER in A6M2:

54 Sorties
45 Landings
49 Kills
20 Assists (mostly due to overshoulder shooters and bad connects) Several for just snap shot hits
2 Bails (safe) damaged beyond flying ability
1 Capture (both bails over friendly base so??????????)
6 deaths (at least two landing mishaps as a glidder/damage)
Glide ratio - no power sucks on A6M2. 105mph with a 2,550 ft rate of decent!!! Is this accurate? At that rate the flair is touchy!

I promise that many of my sorties are RTBed without even fireing my guns.  I landed several bomber kills as well as 3 to 5 fighter kill sorties.

Just about the only time my SA is low is when I am in close on a con while I have allies close by. This is when 6 calls are most appreciated instead of overshoulder shooting.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2002, 05:09:42 PM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline Sakai

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Re: IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2002, 01:03:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Last night was one of the worst examples of this...


I hope I did not do this to you.

I try to stay out of the 2and 2(and 2+) on 1s.  It does make sense to call out your attack and let one or two guys handle it.  

Will try to assist on this.

Sakai
"The P-40B does all the work for you . . ."

Offline ergRTC

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2002, 01:42:34 PM »
Some good observations hawk.  Maybe you axis pilots are doing the 'gaggle' formation the japanese were famous for! ;)

Oh, and delete this thread immediately by order of allied high command.  

You did not read this thread.  Nothing to see here.  Go back to what you were doing.  Do not follow any advise you may find in this thread.....


axis, you are getting very sleepy....

very sleepy....

Offline cajun

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2002, 02:50:29 PM »
What we need to do is host And join more missions!

I love missions, entering the fight together, with an objective!
I hosted a val mission last night, we could only get 4 vals and died pretty fast, but not anywhere near as fast as when we went out allone, but we did manage to get about 2 kills and at least 2 damadged pretty good.

I'd love to see missions in the ct allmost 24/7 .. but I know thats prolly never gonna happen :D *Dreaming of mission theatre*

Hey, untill we get mission theatre, why dont we kinda turn the CT into one? :D

Offline ergRTC

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2002, 03:04:49 PM »
cajun you want to set something up for tonight?  The vf will be flying allied, you guys should try to recreate a ijaaf raid on a town or factory.  I know it sounds cheezy to warn us, but it will help make it interesting.  We start squad night at 10.  Maybe we could try to organize something.

Online Shane

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Re: IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2002, 04:00:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk

However, when there is a pretty nice 4 vs 4 or so fight with only one or two late commers, this is what I see.......Most allied fighters group up even if they are not squad mates. They enter the fight as a group while we...yes even I am guilty at times, enter the fight one by one.  


that's pretty "historical."

:D
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Offline Löwe

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2002, 04:41:32 PM »
Look for the 325th to be sportin Meatballs tonight Hawk. Maybe we can get the 325th and 27th sentai doing some joint ops.

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2002, 05:15:48 PM »
Sakai- yes one was you but no sweat bud, we all do it and I am just as guilty although I try not to.

This is not a fingure pointer but an observation on how we can improve and land more kills and cause the P-40s to run more. :D

Shane, sorry about my M-16 and Ostwin ventures ..hahahaha Im sure they arent real "Historical" :p

Offline Miska

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2002, 06:20:02 PM »
Cajun, as usual 880 will be flying missions starting about 2100 eastern tonight (Tuesday).  As usual, we'll fly for the side that needs the numbers.

Offline Kweassa

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2002, 06:47:12 AM »
If I'd have to fight in a P-40B against a plane like the A6M2, I'd look around for two~three people to tag along with, too. As a necessity, the people who fly Allied aircrafts learn to fly as a group.

 Not only that, but also, squadsmen of the VF-27 are well disciplined, with a lot of members, too. Check the rosters and you will see sometimes they fill about 2/3rds of the roster screen :)

 In short, typically, if there are 40 people in the CT, 20 people each side, while Axis tends to be a group resembling "mercenaries", with a few terrific pilots here and there, the Allies are a solid group.. about 8~10 of the total 20 Allied pilots would be from 1 squad. It is only natural teamwork is easily done.

 Also, with no disrespect to the Allied pilots(!!), but the some of the more experienced people tend to choose the Axis. As can be seen in a typical RAF-LW setup, the planes Axis choose to fly are a bit more 'challenging' than the usual Allied plane.(again, no disrespect to Allied pilots and planes!!)

 While people in the Axis side are usually a bit confident about their skills, this hinders them as a group. The largest "missions" we Axis would do is a two~four man patrol :D with the skillful one~two pilots usually winging each other, and the rest of the guys fooling around, usually doing stupid things such as following a poorly skilled Allied whelp down to the deck with a smug smile :D, and then finding out too late that the skies above is ambushed, swarming with packs of experienced pilots! :D

 ...

 I don't think this is too bad. I think it gives somewhat different "characteristics" of the two sides which people can also begin to enjoy!

 ...

 However, in the aspect of general combat tactics, some things do need to be kept. Being the "Axis stylef" doesn't neccessarily have to mean being alone, or being too aggressive all the time ;) I usually enjoy the "feel" and "aura" of the CT than actually getting kills. For instance, the humongous Allied A-20 raid we met to counter today, was very fun! I got no kills, spent almost all of my time dodging P-40 escorts and trying to get to the bomber formation, and yet, it was very very fun. If people are too much obsessed with kills, is when the CT tends to become a "little MA", as we remeber quite well.

 So, I think it would be good if we can try remember that we're representing a certain historic side here :) In group air combat, I generally try to do "what I have to do", rather than "what I can do". Sure, I can chase down after 1 bogey, contending with others to get that 1 kill to my score.. however, while I'd go for a kill if I had the chance, if it doesn't look too good I usually gladly pass up the opportunity to others. I can dare say when there are four people fighting one bogey, the one guy who stays high and takes top-guard duties is me. The first person to engage incoming reinforcements is also me, and in bad situations, the first person who gets shot down trying to buy time for my m8s to regroup is also me.

 No gripes, I'm just saying that thinking of your own little duties to go with the feel of the CT, and carrying them out dutifully, can be as fun as getting kills. After all, though some may taunt and mock that we're all playing role-playing games, it's that kind of feeling we seek in the CT, something which we cannot see in the MA, is it not?

 ...

 So, it may seem silly at first, but I really recommend some of you guys just play pretend, like the 7 year kids we've once been. Take a deep breath, picture you're an IJAAF/IJN pilot stationed in Burma, and picture the guys who you are flying with are buddies who flew through many battles together.

 Then, imagine there's a one ripe looking enemy fighter down low, and three up high. One of your planes jumps in for the kill. Now, do you jump after him, going for the kill yourself, or do you stay high? :)

 We don't need to function as a tight team like the Allied guys, but do let's try and think as a team. That'd be fun, and I MEAN REALLY FUN! ;)

Offline Miska

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2002, 08:50:18 AM »
I was on that raid last night as a p40 escort.  I didn't fire my guns once, but I saved a few bombers by being in the right place/right time.  It was tense, and it was the most fun I've had in weeks.

On tuesdays and thursdays, when you see VF27 and 880 in the roster, better get yourself some alt, some wingies and some discipline, because you got another thing coming...

Offline ergRTC

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2002, 10:15:26 AM »
here here kweassa


although i do beg to differ on your lw planes being a little more "difficult" .  Is that difficult as in handles better? Or difficult as in accelerates better?  Or maybe difficult like a 109f4 or a 190a5?

Lotsa guys fly allied just cause they feel its the 'good guys'.  In the MA I would say planes like the spit 9, p51, la7, and p47 do support your arguement about strong allied planes, but in here its mostly p40s hurri/spit 1s and f4fs for us allied types with the occasional bone being thrown to any of us either side.  Again, not saying the 109e 110c and the zeros are cream of the crop, but I dont think either side has less 'personality' when it comes to planes in the ct.

Offline ergRTC

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2002, 10:16:20 AM »
Oh and as far as the a20 raid.  I got suckered into a low alt turn fight.  

erg <-- fool


Didnt let that happen again!

Offline Kweassa

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2002, 10:47:35 AM »
actually, "difficult" as in "hard to get kills, and also survive in" ;)

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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IJN Pilots I need help!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2002, 11:20:41 AM »
Well put Kweassa!

Last night I as well as many others never fired a shot during the raid. That was a very nice mission. I had a chance to HO the bombers but elected not to and tried to come in on top of a P-40 but was seen. Once past the bombers there was no catching up. Then it took only one P-40 to come in on me to cause me to loose all chances. Well done 880 and VF-27.

Even though I never fired a shot, there was no gangbanging and no furballing. I was able to RTB.

Ammo, our little escapade afterwords though was fun as well
With your skill I had to go back for my wingman...lol