Late frame starts your opinion requested.

[Tilt]

For various reasons we demand that folk are in properly named squads at the beginning of each scenario frame. Thats a given.

However lately whilst waiting for significant numbers (20+)of late arrivals to sort them selves out  we have effectively delayed the start of a frame. (upto 20 minutes delay)

The other given is that the only alternative is to start on time and ask those not ready to leave and eject those not ready that do not leave.

So whats your opinion?

a)In order not keep 300 odd waiting whilst 20 plus poorly organised late comers sort them selves out, should we say sorry too late to the late comers?

b)Should we accommodate those who come late and unready so we can all enjoy stuff together if later?

This is not a vote ...... its just a bit of "market research" just answer a or b and add anything else below.

[Heater]

My "Vote" Goes for Boot'em, they knew before hand to be on time!


BTW did you guys Know HiTech is a PUTZ Dweeb!

[Wanker]

My opinion speaking as a CM is well-known in the CM forum!

Speaking as a player, I think the most enjoyable scenarios are the ones that are run efficiently and professionally. This includes starting promptly on time.

Every player has a responsibility to know the start time and get themselves in the arena and into a squadron well in advance of launch time. IMO the CM's should not punish those who are organized and on time by making them wait for the late-comers to get organized.

The best solution is to educate the players in advance as to what is expected of them if they want to participate, and then adhere to the timetable as scheduled. The late-comers will learn the hard way that they need to work on their organizational skills.

That's my take on it from a player's perspective.

[Greg Stelmack]

As long as you give enough time for walkons to get into the squads properly and get briefed. When you don't grab walkons until 5 minutes before frame start, there needs to be time to get them integrated.

Optionally, you need to grab walkons earlier and take away reserved slots that have shown up late.

[MrLars]

Originally posted by banana


The best solution is to educate the players in advance as to what is expected of them if they want to participate, and then adhere to the timetable as scheduled. The late-comers will learn the hard way that they need to work on their organizational skills.

That's my take on it from a player's perspective.

He's right. A lot of walkons either don't know how to withdraw from their former SEA squad or don't know to relog after accepting an invite. That seems to me to be the main reason for the slowness of getting squads in order.

Maybe  'Scenario Walk-on Primer' needs to be posted in the forums. Atleast IF they read it they will have a bit more of a clue as to what to expect.

[Rompa]

Start it on time and everyone will learn the hard way

As it is now I "know" it will not start on time so therefore I tend to show up "just in time" or a little late beacause it is f****g boooring to sit in tower and wait from 40 min (or more) before start time and then 20 min more untill roll call

If I knew it would start on time, then I would show up early

And I think many feel this way, "-no need to show up early it will not start on time anyway"

[Esme]

a. The only way the community as a whole will get more organised is if the organisational rules are generally enforced. Whilst it's not possible to legislate for every eventuality ahead of time, and there may often be cases where it'd make sense or be fair to allow a little leeway, turning up on time in particular should be fairly strict, IMO. Thing is, many folks will have things to do after game end, so if the game is delayed so a handful of extra folk can take part, rather larger numbers may need to exit early.

As a suggestion, maybe some smaller, simple one-offs could be run with similar strict rules regarding game start (or game cancelled if not enough show up on time). Inevitably there'd be newbies popping in to see what's on, theyd get to hear about games run to those rules, be intrigued and so look out for the next one, if theyre reasonably frequesnt. Then when a big event like this pops up, more of em would know what to do.  

Well.. it's a nice theory, anyway... :-}

A gets my vote, anyway.

Esme

[AndyH]

One of the things I hate about scenarios is people turning up late.

If a pilot is not there on time (at least 30 minutes before takeoff) then they should go to the back of the que.

We need a better system for walkons, they should be sent to an inactive field where they are sent to a GL by the XO. The GL will then send them to an FL. FLs report shortagets to GLs and GLs report the total shortages to the XO.

We tried this in BoB and it would have worked fine if the FLs had been there on time! At the moment it is difficult to see who is a walkon and who has forgot to relog.

We should not keep slots open for pilots we 'expect' to turn up, then grab walkons at the last minute when we realise they are not coming. This is the major cause of late starts IMO.

Anyone not in a squad at T0 should be booted.


AndyH

[jordi]

Originally posted by AndyH


Anyone not in a squad at T0 should be booted.


AndyH

That is what we did today basically.

We told the CO's that at T+0 we would launch REGARDLESS of Squad Problems. This way it starts on time.

We gave them till T+10 to get those not in a squad into SOME SQUAD. IF they had to augor and come back in we counted it as a disco.

At T+10 we started to dump those not in a squad reagdless. I think we had just 1 IJN pilot  and about 8 US Pilots at that point to dump.

This seemed to have worked out better than frames 1-2-3.

[wklink]

Dump em.  I know myself that if I can't make a frame on time it's tough luck for me.  I believe the same for the rest of them.  It may seem cruel, I guess they could gun as the only thing they should be allowed but otherwise no late fliers.

We post times for these things, sorry my opinion.

[jordi]

Once we get BETTER Squad management tools this particular problem will become a non-factor.

Now that HTC can see that the DEMAND for Scenarios has increased by almost 100% we should see some improvements.

With the ability to hold 500+ pilots the next scenario should be even bigger.

Thanks forall of your comments all !

[BOOT]

Originally posted by AndyH
One of the things I hate about scenarios is people turning up late.

If a pilot is not there on time (at least 30 minutes before takeoff) then they should go to the back of the que.

We need a better system for walkons, they should be sent to an inactive field where they are sent to a GL by the XO. The GL will then send them to an FL. FLs report shortagets to GLs and GLs report the total shortages to the XO.

We tried this in BoB and it would have worked fine if the FLs had been there on time! At the moment it is difficult to see who is a walkon and who has forgot to relog.

We should not keep slots open for pilots we 'expect' to turn up, then grab walkons at the last minute when we realise they are not coming. This is the major cause of late starts IMO.

Anyone not in a squad at T0 should be booted.


AndyH

Couldn't have said it better myself... AndyH

Biggest delays on the USN side were due to walkons coming in at the last minute that had to be coached step by step on how to get in a squad...   Second biggest delay was caused by waiting till the last minute for FL's to show up...  No excuse for FL no shows without notification to the Command Staff...  This causes much confusion and is extremely time consuming to get straightend out in the last few minutes before TO.

I would in the next scenario make it mandatory that FL and GL along with Command Staff be required to report 1 hour  before takeoff or potentially lose thier command... (at the discretion of the CO)

Many did indeed report thier absense in advance along with thier designated replacements...  This ran very smooth...  It needs to be incorporated in the Scenario Rules.

My .02 cents worth

BOOT

[wklink]

Agreed, if you are a flight leader you should be there at least 45 minutes to an hour prior to takeoff.  It takes that long to get the group together, make chanes if ncessary, and in general get the grabb bellybutton under control.

I tried very hard to be there at least 45 minutes prior to takeoff.  Two of those flights I worked until 7am the day of the flight, that meant I got about 3 hours of sleep before logging in.  

If I can make it with that then I don't buy too many excuses.

[Flossy]

Perhaps it would help if the first squad member to arrive in the arena formed the squad and gave everyone invite privileges, so that anyone could then invite other members.  If for any reason the squad has to be disbanded before the next frame, the first person into the arena the following week, on discovering they are no longer in a squad then repeats the process.  This way, there is no hanging around waiting for an FL to arrive to start the process.  Of course, it would help if the original person forming the squad was not involved in any squad-based events such as the TODs in the meantime, and therefore didn't need to disband the squad in between frames.  Main thing is, everyone gets invite privileges so that as long as there is at least one member in the arena, others won't be left waiting.  

[AndyH]

If the FL is not there the GL/XO does not know who to ask for a shortage report. The FL or named deputy needs to be there.