Author Topic: OK Intel gurus give me the run down here. (Read 1967 times)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2003, 01:59:06 PM »

MrSid,

You are somewhat confusing the issue. Wilbus did not do a MHz to MHz comparison. You did.

Once again, the AMD 2600+ and Intel 2.6GHz are virtually identical in performance and price. When I read your posts, you seem to be trying to say things that really don't matter. Aside from what I just said here... what does matter?

So an AMD 2600+ is only running at 2.133GHz, it does not take away from the fact that AMD is still calling it a 2600 and it performs the same as its Intel counterpart... for the same price. The key things are performance and price... right? The rest is just propoganda.

AKDejaVu

mrsid2 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2003, 02:26:08 PM »

Quote

Now, the thing with AMD vs Intel is that in the past, the AMD Athlon compared to P3 was up to 30% faster when running at the same Mhz (say 1.5ghz AMD equeled 1.7 or 1.8 ghz P3). This advantage was lowered when the P4 arived but it was still there. Then Intel released their new P4's, basicly they're still called p4 and nothing else. The advantage of speed that AMD had disapired and AFAIK and have understood by reading different reviews from both magazines and toms hardware (and reading lots of benchmark tests, compared prices etc) the Intel P4 (new version) are quite a bit faster then the AMD.

The way I understand it, this text can only be understood as a direct Mhz to Mhz comparison. Nothing to do with ratings, prices or such.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2003, 03:06:55 PM »

Quote

the Intel P4 (new version) are quite a bit faster then the AMD. There is also no better "bang for buck" anymore as the prices for Intel has been greatly lowered as long as you don't go for the very newest of them (meaning 3 ghz or so).

The "New version" is the hyperthreading processors. And... they are much faster.

When he uses the term "bang for the buck"... well... he's talking about that thing you didn't think he was talking about.

Most of it, you just read in what you wanted. Then you added a generous dose of exageration. 2g as fast as 3g. Yah.

BTW.. you would have done better if you would have called him on the power and noise statement. I've yet to hear a processor that made noise that wasn't seriously broke... and the high end P4s use just as much if not more power than the AMDs. But you didn't... so there.

AKDejaVu

minus · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:09:41 PM »

nothing eternal even Intel not

just like Nvidia, got kicked bellybutton be Ati, hope 1 day intel will be also

nothing personal AKdjw i just realy hate monopolist dictature

mrsid2 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:19:10 PM »

AkDeja that might be so if you were in the place to choose what I'm commenting to or not. That's not the case though.

You've clearly made up your position and will stand in it regardless of cost.. So I'm not going to dull my knife rubbing it on stone.

I wish you luck and success with the Intel route, especially when Palladium will bite you where it hurts.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:40:20 PM »

LOL! ya.. right. When you can't win the "what we got" game.. you go to the "what we were promised" card. Typical AMD

LOL!

Reschke · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:25:46 PM »

Deja I can honestly say that if I had big money laying around to spend on this "hobby" then I would probably have stuck with Intel since the days of the Pentium 200MMX. However I jumped onto the AMD bandwagon with both feet when the mark reached 300MHz with the K6-2 and I have not looked back. For me its simply about the price of the CPU and it has been for several upgrades now.

The only reasons I am thinking of going Intel is the Hyperthreading I have been reading so much about and the my cost of an Intel setup that is similar to an AMD 2600+ CPU based rig. I still am not sure how it effects playing games but I would think that it does not have an effect at this time frame due to the way software development for games tends to run. So if you have some information on that aside from what I have read on Toms Hardware I would like to hear about it. Thanks!

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #37 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:59:25 PM »

I was not trying to convince you of anything Reschke.. see my advice to you above. Either way your OK.

But whenever someone comes in with the "AMD RULEZ AND INTEL SUCKS!" line... I'll be here to keep them honest. Especially when they start saying a 2ghz AMD is as powerfull as a 3ghz Pentium.

AKDejaVu

mrsid2 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 07, 2003, 11:47:13 PM »

AkDeja I'm not trying to say anything, I just quoted TomsHardware.. Although I admit that I read the text wrong at first, they were mixing XP2600 and 2800 in the same paragraph.

"The Athlon 2800+ was only able to match the 3.06 GHz P4 in a few areas: 3D rendering, Cinema 4D and SPECviewperf."

I think it's pretty damn good performance Mhz/Mhz if 2800+ could match 3.06 at ANY benchmark. I already admitted that Intel is the speedking at top of the line.

Pricewise I wouldn't mind buying Intel at the moment either. But after reading the R&D hobbies (palladium) I must protest against them. Palladium is the biggest single threat to free computing the world has ever changed. They're planning to embed hardware protection that will block out any unwanted content from your computer regardless of your own wishes.

This whole thing is a pandoras box.. First it may be used for RIAA's purposes, administering music licenses.. But it's so easy to embed all other nasty things with it. MS can force hardware vendors to authorize only MS OS's through palladium.. You can't even install anything else.. The government can choose you shouldn't read certain documents. IN fact they can choose you won't ever even find out they're there if YOUR computer is concerned.. Etc.

I really don't like the way things are progressing there.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #39 on:** January 08, 2003, 01:11:37 AM »

MrSid,

I think you need to read up on that feature a little more.

And... if it does all the things you say it does... AMD is going to have to release it too.

AKDejaVu

mrsid2 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 08, 2003, 03:12:00 AM »

Akdeja according to AMD press conference, those features will never be embedded in AMD hardware.

Maybe they were roadkillting, I hope not.

Whatever Intel, MS and RIAA excuse it for, palladium and the future implementions that WILL follow it if it goes through are bad.

They severely jeopardise the freedom of digital information and provide the means for the corporations to control all access to the digital media without the consent of the end user. That is, if he's dumb enough to buy the hardware.

The Pentium unique serial ID was just the first poke to the bee's nest. It all starts there.

Of course unique identifiers have been used in hardware for a long time already, but that's a different story altogether.

mrsid2 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 08, 2003, 03:35:04 AM »

Dunno about you, but this worries me a lot:

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There will be remote censorship: the mechanisms designed to delete pirated music under remote control may be used to delete documents that a court (or a software company) has decided are offensive - this could be anything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders. Software companies can also make it harder for you to switch to their competitors' products; for example, Word could encrypt all your documents using keys that only Microsoft products have access to; this would mean that you could only read them using Microsoft products, not with any competing word processor.

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You might be allowed to lend your copy of some digital music to a friend, but then your own backup copy won't be playable until your friend gives you the main copy back. More likely, you will not be able to lend music at all. These policies will make life inconvenient for some people; for example, regional coding might stop you watching the Polish version of a movie if your PC was bought outside Europe.

Quote

Pirate software can be detected and deleted remotely.

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But a recent software update for Windows Media Player has caused controversy by insisting that users agree to future anti-piracy measures, which may include measures that delete pirated content found on your computer.

Here's an interesting point: What stops them from remotely detecting any keywords they don't like and deleting stuff from your computer without you even knowing? This thing is REALLY dangerous.

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When you boot up your PC, Fritz takes charge. He checks that the boot ROM is as expected, executes it, measures the state of the machine; then checks the first part of the operating system, loads and executes it, checks the state of the machine; and so on. The trust boundary, of hardware and software considered to be known and verified, is steadily expanded. A table is maintained of the hardware (audio card, video card etc) and the software (O/S, drivers, etc); Fritz checks that the hardware components are on the TCPA approved list, that the software components have been signed, and that none of them has a serial number that has been revoked. If there are significant changes to the PC's configuration, the machine must go online to be re-certified. The result is a PC booted into a known state with an approved combination of hardware and software (whose licences have not expired). Control is then handed over to enforcement software in the operating system - this will be Palladium if your operating system is Windows.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Over my dead diddlying body.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2003, 07:06:24 AM »

MrSid,

You will find that Intel has never released anything that says the above. Some people have taken a small amount of information and ran a long way with it.

AMD has the luxury of saying whatever they want... they always have. They let Intel do something, wait for reaction, then criticize apropriately before doing it themselves. Remember... they are the company that said "FPUs are highly overated... customers just don't need them."

Eventually your processor is going to have a serial number... there really is no way around this. If you stop and think about the direction that PCs will turn you will realize why. With wireless networking and things like wireless IDE and wireless USB, you need that feature.

The greatest worry about the new features Intel is introducing is that software will require it to be there (since it can be disabled) prior to being installed. If that's the case, AMD will NEED it too.

Right now, you're seeing a lot of reaction to a little information.

AKDejaVu

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2003, 07:11:53 AM »

BTW, you may want to differentiate betwen TCPA(Intel) and Palladium(Microsoft). Palladium is all software being generated by Microsoft. That's what all of the hype is about. And... once again... its overstated.

Amazing what people will write when they find that they may not be able to steal other people's products for long.

AKDejaVu

mrsid2 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2003, 09:23:08 AM »

"You will find that Intel has never released anything that says the above. Some people have taken a small amount of information and ran a long way with it. "

Yeah Intel is just the main driving force in developing that toejam.

Call it what you want, but once the technology gets implemented, you no longer own or administer your own computer.

Hey, if you're so fond of it you can do it even today. It's called being 0wned. Just open your ports and mellow out.