Author Topic: current US income tax system explained  (Read 1668 times)

Offline -ammo-

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current US income tax system explained
« on: January 14, 2003, 06:26:24 AM »
Got the following froma friend. It is right on the money:)

The president is supposed to announce a new economic plan tomorrow evening. Some of the plan is sure to be tax cuts in some form. After his speech it is a foregone conclusion that we will then start hearing about how the wealthy or rich are going to be getting all the breaks while the poor and middle class will get nothing or next to nothing. I saw the following article a few weeks ago and thought that now was a good time to pass it on. If you think that the story is worth reading I would encourage you to pass it on to others. This is a VERY simple way to understand the tax laws. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner.  The bill for all ten comes to $100.  If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this. The first four men, the poorest would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18; and the tenth man, the richest would pay $59. That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day; the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut). "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."  So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected.  They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers?  How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"  The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33.  But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal.  So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. So the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12; leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before.  And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.  "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man, but he, pointing to the tenth.  "But he got $7!"  "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man, "I only saved a dollar, too.  It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"  That's true!" shouted the seventh man, why should he get $7 back when I got only $2?  The wealthy get all the breaks!"  Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at
all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.  The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him.  But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works.  The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.  Tax them too much,  attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest?  Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!

T. Davies Professor of Accounting & Chair,
Division of Accounting and Business Law
The University of South Dakota
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Eagler

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2003, 06:54:55 AM »
the problem lies in the fact the first 6 men are too stupid to figure that out and usually vote dumbacrat :)
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Offline ra

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2003, 07:20:54 AM »
This story makes me hungry.

Offline 10Bears

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2003, 12:21:53 PM »
Hey Ammo are you including FICA tax to your analogy?..

The first 4 men pay a 20$ payroll tax, the fifth man has his payroll tax cut off at $87,000 so he only has to pay $2.

In Bush's anouncment he said 95 million families would get an avrage cut of $1,081.0 and he would need 675 billion for this cut.. OK if 95 million ppl got 1,081... what happens to the other 575 billion?

Offline miko2d

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2003, 12:36:52 PM »
10Bears:...are you including FICA tax to your analogy?..

The first 4 men pay a 20$ payroll tax, the fifth man has his payroll tax cut off at $87,000 so he only has to pay $2.



 First, your arithmetic is flawed. There is no possible way a person with smaller salary would pay larger FICA tax. It's a certain percent of a salary up to a limit. So anyone earning the limit salary or higher pays the maximum amount an everybody else pays less. The percentage of tax to salary gets decreased after the treshhold salary - but the amount does not go dow.

 Second, you logic is flawed too. Whatever the high earner contributed in absolute or relative terms, he will not get that money back as benefits but the poor men will. It's not an investment but pay-as-you-go plan.

 miko

Offline weazel

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Blah, Blah, Blah......
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2003, 12:59:33 PM »
Lets compare the plans.



Look at Bush's plan for America.

The super-poor get a whopping one percent from Christian Bush, while the super rich got 17 percent.
 
To the super-poor, who spend the stimulus money, the Dems offer 13 percent to the GOP's  1 percent..

There's no argument here.

Bush and Rush are proud of the fact that the super-rich got the biggest checks.

But what will it do for the economy?

Offline miko2d

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Re: Blah, Blah, Blah......
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2003, 01:03:39 PM »
The super-poor get a whopping one percent from Christian Bush, while the super rich got 17 percent.

 Not get. Will have less taken away.
 
To the super-poor, who spend the stimulus money, the Dems offer 13 percent to the GOP's  1 percent..

 How would that work as stimulus? How much of that money would poor invest into new capital equipment and new job creation?

But what will it do for the economy?

 Anybody here who was ever hired by a poor person?

 miko

Offline Toad

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2003, 01:37:36 PM »
Yah, getting your own money back...  that's just not fair.

Getting OTHER people's money back... THAT'S fair.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline crowMAW

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Re: Re: Blah, Blah, Blah......
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2003, 01:54:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
How would that work as stimulus? How much of that money would poor invest into new capital equipment and new job creation?

Supply side economics...it's been tried before to save a weak economy.  What did Dubya's dad call it when campaigning for the Republican nomination before agreeing to be Reagan's VP?  Something D - O - O economics... anyone... anyone...Bueller?

How many rich people do you know that would invest in new capital equipment and new job creation enterprises if there is weak demand for the product/service?  The poor "invest" in consumer products/services, which in turn spurs entrepreneurs to take a risk in supplying them with the products/services in hopes of making a profit.  But the concept that "if you build it, they will come" will not mend an economic downturn.  Only an increase in consumer confidence and demand can do that.

Besides, the government should not be using fiscal policy to try to fix a cyclical downturn.  It only ends up hurting in the long run as the deficit spending has to be paid back...with interest!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2003, 01:56:38 PM by crowMAW »

Offline 10Bears

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2003, 02:01:16 PM »
Anybody here who was ever hired by a poor person?

miko


anybody here try to start their own business w/ Rep adminstrations?

Offline Toad

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2003, 02:16:30 PM »
Lemme see here.. according to the chart above, those making less than $10,000 ... I assume that's adjusted gross income after individual exemptions and deductions..... will have their tax burden reduced 12.6%.

Of course, married filing joint with and AGI of <$12,000 owe NO taxes (2002 tax tables).

So, how is that? Those folks get 12.6% of Zero? Or what?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Eagler

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2003, 02:52:02 PM »
exactly what I was thinking Toad

if this graph is correct, I stand to get less from the Bush plan than the Dem one but I'm still for the Rep plan as it is better for the country & its future than the RobinHood plan from the left...
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Offline whgates3

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current US income tax system explained
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2003, 02:54:33 PM »
it wasn't mentioned that #10 was servered champagne & caiviar.
2-4's stale toast was cold because they got there late (they had to walk - couldn't take the bus. they were too smelly after getting off their jobs in waste mgmt)

Offline Curval

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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2003, 02:55:21 PM »
The tenth man is now my client.

shhhhhhhhh
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Toad

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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2003, 03:04:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whgates3
it wasn't mentioned that #10 was servered champagne & caiviar.
2-4's stale toast was cold because they got there late (they had to walk - couldn't take the bus. they were too smelly after getting off their jobs in waste mgmt)


Are you suggesting that all should be paid the same no matter what job in society they perform?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!