.50 cal questions.....(tank v. planes)(how to kill tanks)

[Jochen]

 

I used to think that Finland and it's people were cool.

Actually, We are cool! Don't judge all of us by one example.

Fishu, you must be doing something wrong in this board, otherwise you wont have such a cult after you. Maybe you could try see things outside of your own viewpoint and accept their reasoning when they are right? No one on this board has knowledge to be correct all the time.

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jochen
Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

T-34/76 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[Fishu]

Worthless try to make people understand, message edited & text erased.

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

[Fishu]

Back to the topic now folks, ok?
No more irrelevant out of topic discussion just because of couple handsomehunkes like me and eskimo.

I know, but keep it to yourself if its not about the topic, like I do from now on...

[Fishu]

Could now someone who knows tell if AH is using ball or AP .50 caliber?

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

[Gorf]

Well it seems like everyone totally blew off BLOOM25’s post.  He made a very good point in his post about P47 pilots bouncing shells off of the ground and striking the underbelly of the German tanks and destroying them that way.  

This statement is very very true.  I have read numerous books, History Channel,  A&E, and Wings videos were this was mentioned.  There was a special on the History Channel a while back that was nothing but the P47 and a few pilots said the same thing.

Plus give me a B25 with 12 forward fireing 50s and I bet ya I can make a Panzer disappear real fast.

Gorf

[eskimo]

Last night a squadmate of mine lost a track from an M-16 that was running circles around him.  50 cal. can definitely damage a panzers tracks.

eskimo

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Gorf:
Well it seems like everyone totally blew off BLOOM25’s post.  He made a very good point in his post about P47 pilots bouncing shells off of the ground and striking the underbelly of the German tanks and destroying them that way.  

This statement is very very true.  I have read numerous books, History Channel,  A&E, and Wings videos were this was mentioned.  There was a special on the History Channel a while back that was nothing but the P47 and a few pilots said the same thing.

Plus give me a B25 with 12 forward fireing 50s and I bet ya I can make a Panzer disappear real fast.

Gorf

bouncing bullets only would work on a good hard road. We don't have those.  
In fields, woods, etc they just plop into the ground.

Note that while this was what they did, the actual number of tanks they killed by this method is very low.

150 yards and less a .50 AP round should be able to penetrate top armor if the angle is less then 30 degrees to the normal.

- Jig

[coyote]

yea, funny how a Hispano 20mm HE round will kill a tank but a 75mm HE round wont kill a tank :-)

think the problem is the damage modleing is just a numbers game in AH. .50 cal round would have higher effect on top armor or engine compartment of a tank that a 20mm He round ..............

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by coyote:
yea, funny how a Hispano 20mm HE round will kill a tank but a 75mm HE round wont kill a tank :-)

think the problem is the damage modleing is just a numbers game in AH. .50 cal round would have higher effect on top armor or engine compartment of a tank that a 20mm He round ..............

Good thought...
We have currently Hispano bullets with alot of explosives in it, so it can't be pure AP round, which would knock out a tank probably..
Did they have APHE sort of ammo for Hispanos during war? (before mid 44 - 45)

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Good thought...
We have currently Hispano bullets with alot of explosives in it, so it can't be pure AP round, which would knock out a tank probably..
Did they have APHE sort of ammo for Hispanos during war? (before mid 44 - 45)

This is what I was getting at...HE rounds kill armor way to easy.

- Jig

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:
This is what I was getting at...HE rounds kill armor way to easy.

- Jig

What comes to 75mm HE, about 7 will blow up a tank, thats the most I have got with some 10 blown up tanks.
I averaged HE tank kills to 2-3 hits per tank, either first or second caused some major damage for the tank and next hits either caused more damages per hit or blew it up.
Range from 500 to 2700 yards.

Feels too easy for HE to go through front plate for sure.
Though, I have no references about that how 75mm HE round will effect on Panzer IVH (but I doubt it will have that much effect?)

[Pyro]

I already told you in detail your argument about the longer barrel fixed gun shooting "harder" than the plane mount was tripe. It still is tripe. deal with it.
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So I don't get quoted out of context, my answer on this subject in another thread had nothing to do with armor, it was an answer the question whether .50s on a half-track were the same as .50s on planes.  My answer is that they were not.  The vehicles use the M2HB and planes use the Aircraft M2.  The difference I cited were that HB had a lower rate of fire and a 45" barrel vice a 36" barrel which gave it _slightly_ more muzzle velocity and therefore hitting power.  The difference is about 100 fps as you mentioned.




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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
I already told you in detail your argument about the longer barrel fixed gun shooting "harder" than the plane mount was tripe. It still is tripe. deal with it.

HHmm the whole quote didn't come through, sorry Pyro. This wasn't that part I wanted to show up here. I tried to get the other paragraph but it wouldn't transfer over.

Pyro,

This part of the discussion was related to a comparison of the plane 50's vs ground mount 50's hitting power. The difference in muzzle velocity is a moot point as the forward motion of the plane / gun / round imparts additional velocity on firing. The speed of the plane added to the velocity of the round is a net increase in velocity over the stationary ground mount 50 cal. An airspeed of only 150 MPH adds an additional 220 FPS to the bullets. At any rate, the significance of the velocity added is NOT as large as the angle of impact for the round on the target in regards to armor. The airborne 50 will be able to strike the weakest armor on the tanks, namely the top. The design of the M-3 and M-16 is even more significant. They are open to the top and any round in there would be most unappreciated by the crew. Sometimes they have a tendency to just bounce around until they hit something soft.  

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No Mercy Asked, None Given, Just pass the ammo

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-02-2000).]

[Pyro]

Mav, I'm not arguing with you.  I totally agree, which is why I made that post stating that I didn't want my other post to be taken out of context.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
Mav, I'm not arguing with you.  I totally agree, which is why I made that post stating that I didn't want my other post to be taken out of context.

Otay I shaddup!    


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No Mercy Asked, None Given, Just pass the ammo

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-02-2000).]